jserif t1_ix9d681 wrote on November 21, 2022 at 7:17 PM

Reply to comment by coyote-1 in Tifu by ruining my relationship and a special night by Freerz

It is widely misunderstood, but that doesn’t give you license to use it to justify your own superiority. You call my response a non-thinking reaction, even though what I said was coherent. However, you then use many paragraphs to say that, incorrectly, I implied all addictive things are addictive due to the substance. You reached as far as you could and, surprise, you interpreted it in such a way that makes everyone who did get addicted sound much worse than those who did not. Your responses take some facts and filter them down until they lack any nuance of what the behaviors address in the addict, and finally, argue once again that a drunk person is just the “real” person. I’ll refer to your prior argument then, no doubt something you pulled out of your ass haphazardly; if we haven’t seen alcohol around for a good chunk of human history, then there never would have been any true human behavior before then.

You pretend as if removing inhibition is all alcohol does, you then use that to diagnose why alcoholics are addicted, and are pulling dramatic examples that don’t fit the discussion to bash your way to a perceived win instead of learning anything about yourself. Which… again, if you put yourself around drunk people because it’s fun to see who they truly are, then none of this is surprising so much as it’s just sad.

coyote-1 t1_ix9ihio wrote on November 21, 2022 at 7:51 PM

I’m putting out a different paradigm. To date, virtually all paradigms start from the conclusion that the substance is the issue.

AGAIN: if the substance were the issue, everyone who touches it should become addicted... or like folks who’ve taken opiates to alleviate the pain of surgery, struggle a bit to emerge from that.

But alcohol is not like that. Hundreds of millions of people happily enjoy it, with no hint whatsoever of anything like addiction.

So by process of deduction: ALCOHOL ITSELF IS NOT THE ISSUE.

Issue not the substance. issue is the consumer.

jserif t1_ix9knrk wrote on November 21, 2022 at 8:05 PM

That’s not a new paradigm though, it’s a staple in the issue that is talked about frequently. Saying that the consumer is the issue doesn’t make them bad people worthy of judgment. There’s a whole slew of variables as to why some people are more prone to addiction or what circumstances lead to behavioral addiction.

To that end, it’s not true that “virtually all” paradigms start at the substance. There’s been a huge shift towards mental health and community involvement as treatment for addiction.

This paradigm you’re putting out, however, is derailment from the original point. You believe that this individual who says he was drugged, having memory loss after drinking a routine amount of alcohol, was actually showing his true colors with the alcohol. The drugs didn’t seem to factor in your initial statement. My disagreement is that being drugged is a real problem, secondarily that alcohol abuse isn’t as simple as showing one’s true nature. Watching drunk friends or putting out different paradigms or talking about addiction, while interesting conversations, keeps shifting the fact that you ignored the crux of the incident to tie it into anecdotal experiences you have while others drink, and your philosophy behind this activity.

Getting drugged or getting drunk are two different things, and if you think OP is lying to hide his own mistakes of showing his true self (mostly due to your observations of drunk people, something you enjoy doing) then this argument becomes a matter of opinion and we can leave it at that.