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samuelgato t1_j9s4ehf wrote

Reply to comment by The_Linguist_LL in TIL that there are more than 160 endangered languages in the United States alone. In addition to many Native American languages, Cajun French, Eastern Yiddish, and Martha's Vineyard, Hawaii, and Plains Sign Language are all endangered. by afeeney

Not to be a contrarian but what exactly is horrifying? Languages are like species they naturally evolve, grow, decline and become extinct.

I understand that language can be unifying within a culture, but the disappearance of a language seems to be a symptom of cultural homogenization not a cause.

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ALR3000 t1_j9s7jo9 wrote

Thanks for this. Development of a different language requires relatively prolonged linguistic isolation. With billions of people, broadcast media spreading everywhere, and economic integration around the globe, how is a population going to be relatively isolated? And when firefly isolated populations come in contact.... Well, you get the point

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The_Linguist_LL t1_j9se1j3 wrote

Language loss isn't just a factor of connection, it's economic disparity, political, cultural, and linguistic discrimination and oppression, lack of institutional support, and ethnolinguistic genocide. People aren't just tossing their cultures to the side because they have neighbors.

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ALR3000 t1_j9tf07i wrote

Actually, your wrong.

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The_Linguist_LL t1_j9tf39v wrote

I'm literally and objectively correct little buddy.

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ALR3000 t1_j9tfi0h wrote

Lol! The factors you cited tend to isolate populations, thus promoting language separation. Using the phrase "literally and objectively" indicates...you are pulling this out of your butt. Have a good day, little buddy-ette!

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The_Linguist_LL t1_j9tfpe2 wrote

I guess the entire field of linguistics is wrong about linguistic change, because this reddcel says so.

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The_Linguist_LL t1_j9s8sqj wrote

I'm not claiming language loss is the sole cause of cultural homogenization.

First of all, language is part of culture. The mass eradication of human minority cultures including languages is what's horrifying.

These languages are not being lost because their speakers are throwing them away, they're being lost because economic inequality between cultures, political, demographical, and sociolinguistic discrimination and repression, lack of institutional support, and ethnolinguistic genocide are preventing speakers of these languages from maintaining their ability to choose whether their cultures survive into the next generation. The survival of a culture should always be an option for its members, yet it isn't in many cases.

Not to mention, every language represents a breadth of culturally specific knowledge, information, and stories, that die with it.

Not to mention that understanding human language in general, which is extremely important, requires research on the breadth of human languages.

There are thousands of reasons to protect linguistic diversity, and the only reason to want to decrease it is support of ethnolinguistic genocide.

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mkautzm t1_j9sov8l wrote

There is beauty in preserving language, but to suggest the 'only reason to want to decrease it is support of ethnolinguistic genocide' is quite silly and you damage your argument by dismissing them outright.

Taking it to it's extreme, there are major advantages to having one language. Near-universal communication is a very strong selling point. Having that same universal access to information and information-based platforms without having to traverse a second language would be a boon to many. Not having to spend the time in translation would increase information accessibility to many people.

Now, whether or not it's a net good, or what kind of time line that would turn into a net good is a more interesting discussion, but suggestion that there are no reasons to support the idea of a common language is a pretty dishonest argument.

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Automatic_Struggle t1_j9tg56e wrote

>only reason to want to decrease it is support of ethnolinguistic genocide

Uh, you do know that was a thing though and still is in some places?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/15/algerias-berbers-protest-for-tamazight-language-rights

I say the new current trend of the Russians stealing Ukrainian children and reeducating them is a good modern example of language and cultural genocide.

>but suggestion that there are no reasons to support the idea of a common language is a pretty dishonest argument.

How much knowledge was lost because people decided to force their version of one true common language on people? What stories, legends and medical knowledge are gone because people didn't want to bother to learn another language?

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mkautzm t1_j9vuxx6 wrote

I'm not suggesting there aren't downsides. I'm suggesting that there are also benefits and that suggesting that there are only evil motives is dishonest. I'm suggesting that the conversation is heavily nuanced, and that there is a balance of harms here that must be considered.

Part of being persuasive and having people take an argument seriously is actually acknowledging all the pieces at play. Otherwise, you will find yourself forever preaching to the choir.

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Automatic_Struggle t1_ja0lbzw wrote

>I'm suggesting that the conversation is heavily nuanced, and that there is a balance of harms here that must be considered.

People had to fight to preserve their language because someone said it's not worth preserving or why waste tax dollars on teaching a dying language that no one speaks when we could use it to teach something else.

There's no balance of harm to be considered when some countries like the US did it to wipe out cultures and their religion as a form of genocide. Some countries are still doing this because they view their language and cultural traditions as the only proper way of doing things.

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hymen_destroyer t1_j9toka0 wrote

Also the languages aren’t “lost” if we have an extensive record of their vocabulary and grammar and examples of people speaking those languages. Usually the reason people stop speaking those languages has more to do with convenience than oppression

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DaniilSan t1_j9tvw7o wrote

I totally understand what do you mean but some languages go extinct for natural reasons you explained but sometimes it is definitely not natural and pretty much being intentionally destroyed.

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