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CupcakeAssassin t1_j7gzuey wrote

Sooo, I am but a simple man. If someone much smarter than me can explain this in layman terms, it would be much appreciated. Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s has run in a few members of my extended family, info on it would be helpful.

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SimilarLee OP t1_j7h34g9 wrote

Edit: if you read the headline and you're like "oh, ffffuuuu", please read /u/onewobblywheel 's insightful comment about how some combination of diet, habit, or environment could move the needle for you to at least postpone and potentially halt disease progression. Whether or not that person's strategies apply to you, is immaterial. The point is is that not every future is chiseled in stone, and if this applies to you, early stage therapies and modifications may be worth pursuing.

It means if you act out your dreams, meaning if you physically move around as if your dream were real life: you should probably talk to a specialist about mitigating the high likelihood of future diseases related to specific brain pathologies.

Edit. All of these disorders are synucleinopathies, either caused by or related to the over accumulation of the alpha-synuclein protein in neuronal synapses. One early presentation of this diverse group of brain-based Illnesses is REM Brain Disorder, in which the patient is able to break through the typical paralysis that the dreaming body experiences. This allows the non paralyzed sleeper to act out their dreams physically, and often violently.

Retrospective analysis has discovered that at least four-in-five, and potentially up to 98%, of people who experience physical dreaming eventually develop parkinson's, als, lewy body dementia, or other brain based illness.

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CupcakeAssassin t1_j7h49fe wrote

Oh like sleep walking or kicking around a bunch while in bed/moving arms? If that is the case I am in the clear for now.

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SimilarLee OP t1_j7h4ri5 wrote

Correct. This risk factor relates to physically acting out your dreams.

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pf30146788e t1_j7hqg1l wrote

Oh I thought they meant like after you woke up, if you had like a play you put on to act out what happened in your dreams

I’m an idiot

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the-magnificunt t1_j7hvj5w wrote

What if you do but only once in a blue moon? I punched my partner in the back in the middle of the night once while Dream Me was fighting a giant bee, but I don't generally do things like that.

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Oddity_Odyssey t1_j7iyo3t wrote

I peed in a trash can when I was 6

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the-magnificunt t1_j7jaaob wrote

I don't think I needed this information but...thanks for sharing?

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trevor11004 t1_j7jucuc wrote

I imagine acting out dreams is much more common in childhood than the rest of a persons life, typically. From my understanding dreams are typically much more vivid in general as a child.

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CupcakeAssassin t1_j7ickho wrote

Replying to the edit! That is super interesting. Is that why sleep walkers get violent when someone attempts to wake them up? I don’t know if it is a myth, but I have always seen in a bunch of places that you are not supposed to wake someone up who is sleep walking. In this instance too, someone acting out their dreams while still in bed.

Side note, I have always heard stories of elderly people or people near death talking and or moving in their sleep a lot. This seems interestingly related. I guess since a small factor of Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s exists in my family tree, I know an early symptom I should look out for.

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bigstressy t1_j7haybo wrote

What would mitigating these things entail? Aren't they incurable?

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SimilarLee OP t1_j7hv1ke wrote

I'm not an expert on the etiology nor the mitigation, nor really any part of these diseases. I simply heard that statistic recently, did some research to validate what I had heard, and then posted because I found it so wild that these sleep behavioral symptoms were indicative of future pathologies.

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Mollybrinks t1_j7jfjor wrote

Well, I'm well and truly fucked. I've had everything from sleep walking to lucid dreaming to literally "seeing" my dreamscape even after kinda waking up, overlaid over the real room I was sleeping in. I had to dodge through a bunch of trees one time to get to the light switch so I could stop the dreamscape. And grandpa just died of lewy body dementia. Good times.

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onewobblywheel t1_j7jz8d1 wrote

I just added a long post to this thread that might interest you. It starts with "I am reluctant".

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bombayblue t1_j7jeywb wrote

What’s the frequency for this to be an issue? I’ve woken up three times in the past decade or so swinging or yelling at something from a dream.

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Swizzy88 t1_j7jw5uh wrote

I did this as a kid quite often, bashed my hand into the wall next to my bed a few times, kick the wall or fall out of bed. Seems to have stopped over 10 years ago. My grandfather had ALS but haven't heard of anyone else having Alzheimer's or Parkinson's. I'm mid 30s, I feel like a weirdo going to the doctor asking to be checked out for Parkinson's/Alzheimer's etc.

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Robititties t1_j7h45pp wrote

I copy/pasted the "Results" section of the study and asked ChatGPT to explain like I'm 5:

>A group of doctors did a study to see what might cause Parkinson's disease in people who have a sleep problem called REM sleep behavior disorder. They followed 89 people with the sleep problem for 10 years to see what happened to them. They also checked different things about their health, like their sense of smell, how well they see colors, and if they had any trouble moving.

>After 10 years, they found that about 66% of the people with the sleep problem had developed Parkinson's disease or another similar problem. They also found that some things, like getting older, having a poor sense of smell, and not being able to see colors well, made it more likely for people to develop Parkinson's.

Both Parkinson's and Alzheimer's have different but noteworthy genetic components, so it's worth researching either way

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areolegrande t1_j7jqwto wrote

How the fuck do you avoid getting older like cman give me something :/

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Robititties t1_j7jsrfi wrote

Get in touch with your inner child. Honor that child's emotions, realize you're the same person. Show that child compassion, do things it enjoys, realize you deserve that happiness and the freedom to do so. Pretty good for the blood pressure and mental health, because repressing trauma makes it worse

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RalphWaldoEmers0n t1_j7ka138 wrote

My dad dreampt of fighting in his dreams and would punch in his sleep - we would joke for years about it and then he got Parkinson’s

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onewobblywheel t1_j7jz4on wrote

I just added a long post to this thread that might interest you. It starts with "I am reluctant".

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electrowox t1_j7gyb1k wrote

So you're saying I'll die earlier and in a horrible way? Hooray!

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SimilarLee OP t1_j7h4w3e wrote

Seriously, if you act out your dreams, you should talk to a doctor pronto.

This isn't something that's typically screened for in, say, annual physicals, but should be.

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electrowox t1_j7h5wwj wrote

Now you've moved me from my depressive mood into fearful studying of the subject. I've been diagnosed with ADHD as a child and as I got older, it rather developed into ADD, because the hyperactivity is gone. Could this be another factor? Our neighbour had ALS and damn that would be a good reason to commit suicide instead of drowning in your defunct lungs in your own paralysed body with full mental capacity still functional

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PuckSR t1_j7hdhav wrote

They no longer diagnose ADD and ADhD separately. From what people can tell, some kids just display more hyperactive behavior with ADD. But the brains work the same in all cases, so this just seems to be a symptom

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B0J0L0 t1_j7hlvx6 wrote

what do you mean by acting out? does tossing and turning count? my partner is always punching me in her sleep lol? im confused

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RuadhriO t1_j7jmqtz wrote

It means if you can lucid dream. It's like playing out your dreams like a video game rather than just watching it happen and not be able to control yourself.

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strahag t1_j7jo041 wrote

No. That is not at all what this post means. It is referring to when your physical body is reacting to what is occurring in your dreams.

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[deleted] t1_j7h7anr wrote

[deleted]

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thefairlyeviltwin t1_j7jgdmn wrote

Same, so yay for being proper fucked...

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onewobblywheel t1_j7jzfac wrote

I just added a long post to this thread that might interest you. It starts with "I am reluctant".

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onewobblywheel t1_j7jzerh wrote

I just added a long post to this thread that might interest you. It starts with "I am reluctant".

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Traditional-Meat-549 t1_j7hl0f8 wrote

Husband acts out his dreams and his mother has Lewy Body...great.

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pants_owner t1_j7h4ab4 wrote

As if Birbigs didn’t have it bad enough already.

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SimilarLee OP t1_j7h53ow wrote

I've actually seen his one-man show in New york, and I do remember a part about sleepwalking and physically acting out dreams (in Walla Walla).

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pants_owner t1_j7h6sos wrote

Yeah it’s a big part of at least one of his specials and a movie he wrote/starred in.

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atx00 t1_j7hfew5 wrote

Damn...this sucks. I act out my dreams constantly, and talk in my sleep. One time, I was sleeping on my back, and had a dream I was fighting. Threw a hard right hook into the pillow almost clocking my wife in the head.

Another time, I went into our closet and pulled stuff off the shelves looking for my "steak seasoning" apparently. I'm a chef and was dreaming that I was at work digging through a spice rack, completely asleep.

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onewobblywheel t1_j7jzg5a wrote

I just added a long post to this thread that might interest you. It starts with "I am reluctant".

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Raffo05 t1_j7h4lk5 wrote

Damn, my dad had this....he developed both Parkinson's and eventually dementia. I hope I don't get it

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SimilarLee OP t1_j7h5l9z wrote

It's not a given, but there is a genetic component of this stuff. You may do well to research synucleinopathies, and learn how you can avoid or postpone those types of outcomes via changes in habits, diet, and environment.

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onewobblywheel t1_j7jznn1 wrote

I just added a long post to this thread that might interest you. It starts with "I am reluctant".

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CulturedClub t1_j7hgrla wrote

Recently i've been sleep walking a lot and doing mad shit like almost throwing things out windows because they're apparently covered in flies. I mentioned the other day that I suppose that's what having some dementias may be like. When it's happening I'm aware that what I'm seeing is insane but no part of me is aware that I'm asleep.

I'm dreading the day I wander outside.

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onewobblywheel t1_j7jzmya wrote

I just added a long post to this thread that might interest you. It starts with "I am reluctant".

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MqAuNeTeInS t1_j7hhgh9 wrote

Ok so ill have to make an early end to my life if i get these. Thats not a life worth living.

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intellifone t1_j7hspn4 wrote

  1. This was a very small sample size.
  2. I’m curious what the data also says about the percentage of people with the studied brain maladies also physically acting out their dreams prior to showing other symptoms.

Let’s say 10% of the population will eventually get one of these conditions, but only 1% of the population physically acts out dreams, then that explains only 10% of the attributes that correlate to these conditions.

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Raincoats_George t1_j7ix05p wrote

This is the truth. I suspect this is only part of the equation and to boldly tell anyone who sleep walks theyve for sure got a terminal neuro degenerative disorder is a bit of a leap.

This falls into the 'warrants further research' category of information.

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intellifone t1_j7j03kh wrote

It’s potentially very useful for those who sleepwalk and maybe tells researchers they need to evaluate these conditions more seriously to understand true vectors of disease.

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NarrMaster t1_j7ib56e wrote

Guess who woke up punching again the other night! Yay!

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BrokenEye3 t1_j7hbh7w wrote

Sleepwalkers are also great at predicting when you're going to be shanked by a dude who sleeps in a cabinet

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CleanHotelRoom t1_j7hd52l wrote

So i lucid dream a lot but the paralysis very much affects me still and while i have control in my dreams irl im a dead log. I...should be fine right? Am i interpreting this correctly?

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Five-and-Dimer t1_j7ixqyh wrote

I used to be visited by dead friends and family in my sleep, but since my widow maker, and subsequent coding in the ambulance, they won’t show themselves anymore and I only hear voices I can’t understand. So every night as I fall asleep I shoot right into a dream, a voice or noises startle me, and I wake up saying “What”. I’m probably fine though…… right?

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SaddieTheSatan t1_j7hgg9g wrote

Does this mean “if I am mentally awake in my dreams or when I’m sleeping I actually move according to what is happening to me in my dream?”

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areolegrande t1_j7jqrwn wrote

Cool, didn't need anxiety before end but...

What if you had that as a child but no longer?

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inkyblinkypinkysue t1_j7hkwbs wrote

As far as I know, I do not move around or talk in my sleep and I haven't remembered a dream in 30 years. Not sure what that means...

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monkeypox_69 t1_j7hl91w wrote

My grandma talks in her sleep and sometimes moves a bit.. she's starting to get forgetful now. I wonder if it's all linked.

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awkkiemf t1_j7hm0ly wrote

Dammit… I have big problems coming my way

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vanelle01 t1_j7hw11z wrote

So actively waking my self up cus I was dreaming and I noticed I could just hear and see while my body was paralyzed does count ? I was yelling at my sis to wake me up cus somehow I was dreaming she was visiting.

I woke up a first time in my sleep, sis gone. Then I noticed I was still paralyzed,I was thinking to myself wake the up! Numerous times.

And then I woke up. I hate quick naps.

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electronp t1_j7iq26o wrote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

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vanelle01 t1_j7ndv09 wrote

Oh yeah I know it was sp, got to excited about the whole thing happening.

However I did not feel “heavy weight on my chest” this time.

I’ve had multiple sp experience’s in the past, which where right out terrifying tho. This one not so much.

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True-Target-1577 t1_j7i5cx6 wrote

What about talking in your sleep? Does that count?

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ThatOtherFrenchGuy t1_j7k2bxt wrote

Wait, you are speaking of lucid dreams right ? aren't they pretty common ?

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SimilarLee OP t1_j7k2v28 wrote

Awareness of the dreaming state (while maintaining sleep paralysis), aka lucid dreaming, is not the same as physically acting out your dream (losing sleep paralysis).

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CircaSixty8 t1_j8mydly wrote

No, this means moving around more than just a regular tossing and turning. Like kicking, rolling out of bed response to what the person is dreaming.

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MastermindX t1_j7op8ez wrote

Great, another thing to be worried and obsessed about.

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onewobblywheel t1_j7jymbh wrote

I am reluctant to post this, because I know it's going to trigger a lot of negative commentary. But if it helps even one person, then it's worth it. But I'm not going to come back to see the vitriol I'm sure will follow.

If you're one of these people who "acts out their dreams", there may be a way to avoid the brain maladies mentioned here that most doctors won't know about. First of all, if you can stand on one leg for more than a minute (for both legs), relax. You're fine for now. But if you want to stay. fine, read on.

You know how some people are lactose intolerant and others aren't? Some people have celiac disease, and others don't? I've had a recent health scare, and I took a deep dive into the science of nutrition. Long story. I'll spare you. But I've learned that some people can be sensitive to red meat (anything mammal). It's just a little too close to cannibalism, and cannibalism causes all kinds of neurological disorders. For other people, any form of animal protein can be slightly toxic -- including fish. There have been cases of dementia and parkinsons disease reversed by eliminating animal proteins from their diets. But it doesn't work for everyone. You have to experiment and see what your body responds to.

Just so you know I'm not saying this for an animal rights agenda, I also learned that saturated fat from animals -- lard, tallow, ghee (butter with the milk proteins removed), is actually healthier for your brain than any vegetable oils, including coconut oil. Seed oils are the worst. But (and this is vitally important) you have to keep your saturated fat intake below 8% to 10% of total calories or it can cause deadly heart disease. (About two tablespoons per day on a 2000 calorie per day diet seems to be perfectly safe.)

Anyone under the age of 25 probably needs animal protein in their diets. They're still building muscle and other body structures. After 25 we don't typically do as much of that anymore, so we don't (on average) need as much protein anymore. There's plenty of protein in the vegetables and grains we eat.

Sugar is also toxic to your brain. It has about 3/4 of the toxic effects of alcohol. Remember Ronald Regan? He ate a lot of jelly beans every day. That was probably why his alzheimers disease was so profound. (this is just one anecdote, but it's illustrative.)

For some people the sugar toxicity stops with refined sugar, but for other people it extends into the high glycemic foods like white rice and potatoes. Again, you have to experiment, but this typically requires continuous blood glucose monitoring. Not cheap.

The bottom line: Eliminate sugar and animal proteins from your diet, eat about 8% of your calories from saturated fat (your brain is actually mostly made from saturated fatty acids), and use a mono-unsaturated fat (olive oil or avocado oil) for the rest of your fats, and your brain should be fine into old age. I used to be a hearty meat and potatoes man who drank a soda with dinner every night, but my research has turned me into a beans (cooked with lard!), grains (oatmeal flavored with ghee is great!) and colorful vegetables guy who only drinks water, tea and coffee.

A word about lard -- don't buy it. Store bought lard usually has a lot of trans fat mixed in. Trans fats are deadly. You can render your own lard (or tallow) easily using a microwave oven and a coffee filter. But you can research how to do that yourself. Store bought ghee seems to be fine.

FYI, I'm not a doctor. But I am a professional researcher trained in critical thinking skills. I'm not going to say more. Do your own research, but be careful. There's a lot of misinformation out there about keto and carnivore diets from people with an agenda. Short term results, even five years, are not the same as 100 year longevity with your wits and agility intact. Look at what the centenarians are eating. More importantly, what they were eating 50 years ago, and in what total quantities and proportions. And remember, medical science deals with averages. But no one is average. We are all unique. There are more than 10,000 chemical mechanisms in the human body related to diet and nutrition. Only a fraction of them have been investigated. The more confident someone seems to be about nutrition, the more skeptical you should be about their claims. Myself included.

Good luck out there.

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