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sadorna1 t1_je00vq5 wrote

Reply to comment by AudibleNod in TIL that in Chinese Folk Religion, a mortal human being could ascend into godhood not through the decisions of a clergy/church, but by the sheer number of people who believe that their extraordinary achievements led to apotheosis, which forced Confucian/Taoists clerics to canonize a person as a God. by Khysamgathys

Hercules as an excellent example Achilles Pretty much any of the half-gods really

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machina99 t1_je029j5 wrote

I'd hesitate to say any of the half gods just because Zeus got around so much, but certainly more than half. The rest tend to end up as constellations

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that_baddest_dude t1_je0uxyz wrote

Zeus getting around so much could also be a retcon. See Hercules.

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Animeninja2020 t1_je2bev9 wrote

So if someone is worshipped in Ancient Greece, you could just claim that Zeus was the daddy.

That is a great loophole for the priesthood to use.

"No, he was not a normal name, he was the son of Zeus"

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Weysting t1_je2r0xi wrote

need that pic of the astronaut meme

“wait they’re all sons of zeus ?”

points gun

“always have been”

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Repulsive_Hour_4559 t1_je1v3uu wrote

Popular belief driving an official response is pretty much the system that drives many aspects of religious doctrine

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JumpyDelivery3079 t1_je16qfo wrote

The Chinese case is very informal and relies solely on popular praise for a dead person. Plus you become a fully developed god.

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sadorna1 t1_je1cept wrote

Yes obviously this throw a bit of a loophole in, but the overall premise remains the same. Wherein communities celebrating an individual within that community leads to a revered status akin to god-hood for the individual whether it be before or after their death.

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Astalon18 t1_je2efgs wrote

Chinese it has to be after death.

Also the Taoist and Confucian clergy will not acknowledge people who had led horrible lives or caused more harm than good. There is one person who some people alleges is now a God who has not been elevated at all ( after all how can a person who caused the Cultural Revolution be elevated ).

Genghis Khan is also not elevated for the same reason, as is Qin Shih Huang.

This is despite people actually reporting supernatural interventions. Some beings are simply never acknowledged.

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NovelCandid t1_je319db wrote

Is the approval by a formal council or does a thought leader just refer to the deceased as divine and it becomes generally accepted?

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semiomni t1_je0zsh3 wrote

Those guys were born half gods and stayed half god though.

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Kitselena t1_je198mb wrote

In the stories. It's not unlikely that those stories were based on regular people who did incredible things in their lives, and were remembered as demigods after their deaths like the post says

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obliqueoubliette t1_je1juys wrote

Theseus and Hercules were real people. They probably didn't go by those names, and definitely didn't fight off Minotaurs and Demons, but there are key historical events that definitely happened that are attributed to the demi-gods.

Whichever Mycenean King unified the five cities of Attica into Athens is Theseus. Whichever Mycenean King of this unified Athens reversed the Minoan hegemony (from paying tribute to Crete to receiving tribute from Crete) is also Theseus. They might even be the same guy.

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semiomni t1_je19xkw wrote

What do you mean "not unlikely"? What would you base that likelihood on?

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Kitselena t1_je1bb78 wrote

Nothing, I haven't researched Greek archeology but I know these stories are usually word of mouth things passed down and embellished over generations. It's pretty safe to assume that gods didn't actually exist back then but these stories must have had some origin so I think it's reasonable to assume they're at least loosely based on real people

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semiomni t1_je1bmpn wrote

>It's pretty safe to assume that gods didn't actually exist back then but these stories must have had some origin

Right that makes sense, wonder who the real Batman is, think he lives in New York with Superman?

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Kitselena t1_je1cegv wrote

Fair enough, but even completely fictional characters are based on the author's experiences and previous literature (which there wasn't much of at the time and even what did exist wasn't very accessible due to literacy rates). This can go back and forth forever and unless a Greek history scholar comes in idk if there's gonna be a real answer, I was just proposing one possiblity

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semiomni t1_je1degd wrote

>but even completely fictional characters are based

Come the hell on.

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Ok_Sir5926 t1_je1isih wrote

Your adamant opposition to their claim is just as evidence based as the claim itself.

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semiomni t1_je1vjpf wrote

You're supporting my position, you just don't understand what you're saying.

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lordtrickster t1_je1yset wrote

Given that basically all fiction is a mix of the experiences of the author and older fiction, both embellished, yeah, pretty much. Science fiction adds on embellished scientific theories.

Sure, there's imagination at play, but that's generally sourced from centuries of embellishments.

The 13th Warrior (movie) is a decent random example of where these sorts of things can come from. The grendel were dudes in bear hides and the firewyrm was just a column of riders with torches snaking in from the distance. As long as they kept winning, the truth would never get out.

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semiomni t1_je1zp2r wrote

Yeah yeah I get it, if you stretch your imagination enough you can't ever be wrong.

But gosh maybe this post about a Confucian/Taoist practice does not really say anything at all about Greek practices.

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lordtrickster t1_je20bzm wrote

Perhaps. I don't really see a difference between this and the Greeks, or even the Catholics and their saints. People decide a person is extra awesome and designate them as such.

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conquer69 t1_je1nxhq wrote

It's also likely it is fanfiction that was later added to the canon. Back then even the concept of fiction wasn't fully understood.

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