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kree8or t1_isscmx2 wrote

i read somewhere that most ‘worlds tallest buildings’ for their era are commissioned at times of plenty (lots of surplus captial), built as the storms clouds gather, and open during recessions and economic crises. Twin Towers. The Shard. Burj Kalifah.

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FredYellowYellow t1_issgkqu wrote

Yes. IIRC Burj Khalifa is called Khalifa because Dubai-authority had to get/loan money from Abu Dhabi authority.

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LikeEpisodeVIThemost t1_issnohd wrote

Was really hoping for a more pronographic end to this comment

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Foreign-Complaint130 t1_issqp6y wrote

Fwiw, Khalifa means successor or heir in Arabic. Hence it's a pretty common name. It's also what a Caliphate/Caliph is named for: they're the successor to the Prophet. Very common Arabic name for that reason

Hence, an American former adult performer of Lebanese extraction having it as a last name

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gonzo5622 t1_isstlr5 wrote

“California” is also derived from the word “Caliph”.

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samillos t1_isv3jtm wrote

It was originally going to be called tower of Dubai but Abu Dhabi didn't accept that name as they paid for it too

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innergamedude t1_isterf3 wrote

The skyscraper effect:

How much validity it has is debatable.

Also, we shouldn't really build tall skyscrapers if reasoning on environmental or economic factors.

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[deleted] t1_isu11dn wrote

[deleted]

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A_Soporific t1_isu8wu3 wrote

They are nothing, and deep down they know it. They know the oil is running out. They know that once it's gone not one person will every think about them ever again. They know they don't have the time to grow something organic and unique and theirs. They need to make something NOW. Something that make people think that they are a real thing. Something that will attract other money, since as long as there's foreign money and investment they have a chance.

So they built skyscrapers. They built all the outward signs of wealth and power and importance. They built all the things that would attract international wealth and power. They pay obscene amounts of money and put ridiculous effort into getting global sporting events and unique items.

All so that they can pretend to be something.

The problem is that those things will get old and run down. It's already happening. For the moment they are using oil wealth to build more new and shiny to distract from the rusting and rotten. But the second they can't continue to build they'll become nothing. Old historic casinos in Las Vegas don't draw crowds, they are left to rot until someone blows them up and builds something new and shiny. Old historic skyscrapers in Dubai won't draw the global elite, they'll find somewhere else building something new and shiny like they always have and always will. The only chance Dubai and Saudi Arabia ever had was leaning into what makes them special and unique, to give experiences that one can't have anywhere else.

It's already too late for them to correct course. They have sunk untold trillions into a generic modern experience you could have anywhere for thirty years. In another thirty it'll be tired and worn out and dated. People will look at their skyscrapers and think of it as antiquated as "early 21st century" as opposed to whatever style is big in the 2040s to 2060s as "mid-century" styles take over the hearts and wallets of the big spends.

Dubai and Saudi Arabia will be nothing again. And we will have missed out on whatever unique and special experience they might have offered if they decided to lean on their own people rather than merely copy styles that were already on the way out in the west.

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SeanOuttaCompton t1_isuamz0 wrote

Redditors criticize a foreign country’s government without getting really really weird challenge (impossible)

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A_Soporific t1_isugk26 wrote

There are just the three things that really annoy me about the way they're doing things.

The first is that none of that money is going into base infrastructure needed to support these massive buildings. The tallest building in the world doesn't have a sewer hookup. They have to pump out that massive septic tank every day with a fleet of a couple hundred trucks. That's just massively more expensive over the long run and demonstrates a lack of focus on the unsexy but necessary technology that makes skyscrapers an option. As soon as the oil money slows down the lack of a sewer will eat away at the money available to build a newer tower. Just look at the Jeddah Tower (formerly the Kingdom Tower) that may or may not be completed now because of internal politics and work stopped on the tower that was supposed to be a kilometer tall in 2017. Every year that passes makes restarting construction more technically challenging and expensive.

The second is the complete reliance on foreign design and oversight. None of those skyscrapers are different than any other skyscraper built anywhere else in the world. They could be anywhere, which means that they are nowhere mentally speaking. If the design was more reflective of the place, the millennia of history, and the people there I would be far more positive about them. The more things that are pale imitations of the "international style" the poorer the collective cultural value of architecture is and the poorer we all are for it. Investing in their people to create something new and valuable was something they consciously decided against, which makes me grumpy.

Finally, oil revenue is always temporary. Not only are we losing uses for oil but the oil fields in question have a finite quantity of oil in them. Even if selling oil remains profitable globally forever, Saudi Arabia will run out. There have been no significant finds of new oil reserves since 1989 and the Ghawar fields (5% of the world's proven reserves) seems to be tapping out early, some of the oil might actually be a layer of water thus substantially reducing the amount of oil Saudi Arabia might actually have. The worst case scenario is that Saudi Arabia is out of oil in the early 2040s. The Best case is that they run out in the late 2080s. Even with spending several hundred billion dollars on exploration you can't find something that doesn't exist, and the Vision 2030 program indicates that the Kingdom itself doesn't believe that there is much more oil to find and they need to transition away from oil to something else. My big gripe is that the "something else" they have decided upon are "the line" and giant manufactured luxury islands that lack basic infrastructure like running water and sewers rather than investing their money into basics, local culture, and something unique and enriching for humanity as a whole. I wouldn't mind if they just leaned into the Hajj I will never go on, I am just disappointed they are into geometric police states and Neo-Vegas instead of something that's actually practical and sustainable and uniquely them.

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[deleted] t1_isv09lm wrote

[deleted]

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A_Soporific t1_isv5tr5 wrote

Why? It's desert. It's not like they're destroying ecologically valuable wildlife habitat. If anyone should be expanding outwards rather than upwards it's people in deserts. They aren't even substituting farmland or land useful to man or beast.

If you were talking about a temperate forest or a jungle or farmland or a swamp then yes, by all means up makes way more sense than out, but it's Saudi Arabia.

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Johannes_P t1_isutw0b wrote

> Also, we shouldn't really build tall skyscrapers if reasoning on environmental or economic factors.

OTOH, denser urban areas might mean less use of land surface.

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Gagarin1961 t1_ist3bmn wrote

Damn, it’s too late for one during this business cycle, then

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fml86 t1_isule9c wrote

I’ve read this with respect to sports arenas/stadiums.

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