goltz20707 t1_isgjupk wrote on October 15, 2022 at 8:37 PM

Reply to comment by on_ in TIL: Sperms were thought to move by wiggling their tails side-to-side, like eels, for 350 years. But research shows that they roll as they move forward like a spinning top. by vect77

Protista “motors” are constructed at the molecular level, with (in the case of human sperm) 16 proteins in a ring. One proton per protein rotates the ring by one protein, so 256 protons are required per rotation. Scaling that up to the macroscopic level, even just to the size of a small insect, would require a very complex design. I can’t see such a design evolving naturally — it would take deliberate “intelligent design”.

bubliksmaz t1_ish4a8y wrote on October 15, 2022 at 11:07 PM

It's not the complexity that precludes certain things evolving - organisms are fucking complex enough. It's the fact that evolution needs to happen in tiny incremental steps, each of which are beneficial to the organism. For legs, that's easy: First they're just fins for swimming, then maybe they're used to drag ones body across a short stretch of very shallow water, then they gradually take more of the weight to make locomotion more efficient. For a wheel and axle... nah.

goltz20707 t1_ishbsqj wrote on October 16, 2022 at 12:04 AM

I guess what I meant is that a protein-proton motor that uses things like van del Waals forces and molecular mechanical mechanisms to create motion cannot work at the visible scale. I agree that complexity is no barrier for evolution—look at clotting factor chemistry—but I can’t imagine an incremental path to “wheels”. (I will admit it may be possible.)

nsaisspying t1_isiyuq1 wrote on October 16, 2022 at 10:14 AM

Have you read the book Climbing Mount Improbable?

kommandeclean t1_islbffo wrote on October 16, 2022 at 8:54 PM

Sort like humankind's intelligence, it will require some "intelligent design" to bestow upon us intelligence inside an organ .. psstt.. you are right crazy to think that.

goltz20707 t1_isligjz wrote on October 16, 2022 at 9:42 PM

If you can convince me that you even come close to understanding proton-pump biology and why that cannot, cannot possibly scale past the molecular level, I’ll consider your argument.

kommandeclean t1_ism1l7u wrote on October 17, 2022 at 12:05 AM

Your crude attempt to humiliate me tells me that maybe your brain is an example of failed scalability of intelligence in neural networks.

goltz20707 t1_ism3fpr wrote on October 17, 2022 at 12:19 AM

I apologize. I should know better than to escalate an argument like this. If it’s put you into a depressive spiral like it has me, then I doubly apologize. Antagonism was not my intent.