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onioning t1_j0vnf8u wrote

There are seals there and the fun part is figuring out how they got there. IIRC going upriver from the arctic is the most popular theory, but that's a long long way to go in unfriendly environments. Cute little puggy seals too.

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FingerTheCat t1_j0w865h wrote

Floods?

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rocksfly t1_j0xyd44 wrote

The river connections get pretty close to the lake, and likely connected to the southern part of the lake.

Pinnipeds have been found in inland California when they swim upstream in the rivers and canals.

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onioning t1_j0zlxoa wrote

Yah. Like I say, that's a long ways to go, especially since those rivers stay frozen for much of the way. As far as I know, there aren't seals that do well in rivers, and it's rather unlikely that the lake was populated by individuals making the entire journey themselves.

The other major theory is they came from the West, plausible because the Caspian was far far larger, as was the... Um... The sea that Ukraine borders. Whatever that one's called.

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rocksfly t1_j0zmdz0 wrote

A key to answering this question is genetic analyses, which can help narrow down how long that population has been there. Then you have a broader sense of the climatic variability that could play into the migration.

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onioning t1_j0zn6zo wrote

I'm speaking from memory here, so may have the details wrong, but if I am remembering correctly they haven't been there that long. It would be easier to explain if they had been around before the last ice age, because that would make the northern river route more plausible, but the timing doesn't add up. If they were a bit older than even that the western route would be more plausible, as those waterways were yet greater. But the timing doesn't add up, and they seem to have arrived after those easy routes were dried up or frozen.

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Ruuhkatukka t1_j115c0w wrote

Why would a river be unfriendly for seals? Salt water seals do just fine in freshwater too don't they?

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onioning t1_j1166c4 wrote

It's pretty much a wholely different environment. Totally plausible for seals to travel short distances through rivers, but at that length it's almost certainly a multi-generational migration. Meaning whole generations were born in and died in rivers. That's a hell of a rapid adaption from being arctic sea-dwellers.

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Ruuhkatukka t1_j116vot wrote

Interesting. So there were river based sub species at some point? I don't know much about seals but I was always fascinated by the sub species that lives in lake Saimaa here in Finland.

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onioning t1_j117x28 wrote

This is all speculation. Just perhaps the most plausible explanation. There's literally no evidence of river going seals up there. Though that doesn't at all mean it didn't happen. Finding a river going ancestor somewhere would change things, but the fossil record can be really cruel sometimes.

If they came from the West this problem doesn't exist, because that would be a voyage of shorter rivers between larger bodies of water.

There's a good YouTube video on this. Can't recall if it's PBS or Moth Light Media or someone else, but details the various theories.

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absolutelyshafted t1_j0w8ldr wrote

“Long way” is basically nothing for animals

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bozitybozitybopzebop t1_j0wthrm wrote

Have you looked at a map?

Do you have any idea how long the way is in this instance?

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absolutelyshafted t1_j0wtr4h wrote

Animals regularly travel tens of thousands of miles

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Samtoast t1_j0x4rak wrote

Well for a pinniped it's a long fuckin way! They don't have feets!

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