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Hantelope3434 t1_isukgcq wrote

Reply to comment by df33702021 in Is wood cheaper than oil? by wholeWheatButterfly

I am referring to you splitting wood yourself versus having cords delivered. You are correct that depending on your heating systems, delivered wood could be more expensive overall than propane in your situation.

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df33702021 t1_isuoba9 wrote

I cut, block, split, and stack my own wood. It takes me upwards of 4 days to do this part. Then it takes those 5.6 days to fill the wood stove. I never really assigned a dollar value to my time, but you're talking upwards of 10 days/yr dealing with wood. If I used what I get for pay for my job, that would be the priciest wood ever. If you want to use $20/hr then 10 days*8 hr days*$20/hr= $1600. At some point, you have to ask yourself is it worth it. Of course, that doesn't include fuel, equipment, etc. Or any injuries you sustain. That's a whole different angle.

I put in a gas-condensing 95% AFUE boiler with low mass radiant and it's just so efficient that it turned the whole wood scenario on it's head. The pivot point is when propane gets over $4/g, but I probably would still use it up to $5/g.

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Hantelope3434 t1_isurxn5 wrote

I completely understand the labor aspect not being for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with that. If for you your time is more valuable than low cost heating, that is fine. I am saying to assign the word "cheaper" in this subject means that it requires less cash. Cutting my own wood from my property with a gas chainsaw and a little riding lawn mower with a trailer costs me no cash other than the gas for chainsaw and lawn mower. It is exercise for me and a stress reducer so it arguably is saving my money from finding a new exercise routine. For many people that chop wood this is why we consider it cheaper and it uses less cash. Does it take more of your time than propane? Absolutely.

I am not sure I understand why filling the wood stove takes so long in your case, but with mine I fill it twice per day. My parents have an outdoor wood boiler that heats everything for the house and is very efficient and loading it doesn't really seem to be a problem for them at age 70.

To each their own on what they heat with. Everyone's situation can make things different. But cutting your own wood has the capability of being the cheapest way of heating out of any other resource.

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df33702021 t1_isuvs53 wrote

Fair enough. I value my time.

I would fill it 4 times/day. I also have two wood stoves, one of which I only use if it's real cold. 15m/day works out to be ~3.5m per fill. Even if you spend 10m/day it adds up to 5hrs/mo. Most people wouldn't even include this time, but they should if they are comparing wood to propane, oil, etc.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_isv8qfb wrote

Are you taking days off of work to heat with wood? Would your time be compensated if you weren’t using it to do firewood? You can’t put a cash value in your time if it’s not inhibiting your ability to earn other income. Also factoring in operator error to this cost analysis is dumb. You broke your tractor, skidding a log didn’t break it. I’ve done a myriad of dumb shit to my equipment, but it’s 99.9% of the time an operator error.

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df33702021 t1_isv9pvv wrote

I don’t recall you being there when it broke. I’ve taken time off for wood before. Good grief what’s everyone’s problem.

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sugarbush94 t1_isvqk9z wrote

What's the problem? I think it's like you said earlier, they probably haven't ever cut their own wood and they are just trying to find cracks in your logic because it doesn't fit their beliefs.

I do it all myself, like you. I enjoy the process and take value from it, like a rewarding hobby. But yes, the equipment costs are real and need to be included. I think they're often underestimated. I buy two saw chains each year, a bar every couple, and a new saw about every ten. E0 saw fuel, 2 stroke oil, bar and chain oil add up. Splitter fuel, hydraulic oil, etc. It all adds up.

And yes, things do wear out and break even when the operator does everything right. The person who only breaks stuff when they do something wrong is probably doing lots of stuff wrongly.

But if the OP was simply asking about the cost/btu of cordwood vs propane, I think buying wood is cheaper.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_isvslwz wrote

Dude breaking your three point hitch skidding a log is an operator error. I’ve been there, it’s not a judgement on you. My other points still stand though, I do about 20 cord a year for my house, shop, farmstand and mothers, I wouldn’t never account for my time as it’s not like you’re taking time off of work to put up wood. If you do you’d have to value that time, but with the amount you’re talking about (3 days I think you said?) I don’t understand how you’re putting that into the metric. And idk, if everybody has a problem maybe it’s not them it’s you? I really wasn’t trying to “have a problem” at all, just pointing out where I thought your cost analysis was flawed.

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df33702021 t1_isxfn95 wrote

It was just a fluke. You need to include your equipment repairs into your cost regardless of how they happened. Otherwise you are not being honest with what wood is costing you. If you were selling firewood, you most certainly would include it as a means to lower your tax burden. It's not dumb at all. In fact, it would be dumb not to.

Also, you can value your time as you see fit. You can measure that however you wish: money, time away from kids, time not fishing, etc. It's your time spent. Wood is time intensive. That's the tradeoff. If you don't value your time dealing with wood, it will always be cheaper in your own mind. Put a value on it plus include costs like equipment repair and maintenance to obtain the wood and you're into the more expensive or break even area compared to using other energy sources. In my case as propane prices keep rising, that becomes less true. But it's not there yet.

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Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_isunkds wrote

Yes but he repeats that he gets all the wood for free and does the cutting etc himself. Oh well the days of sub 3 dollar propane are long gone anyways. He's not gonna like these numbers.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_EPLLPA_PRS_dpgal_w.htm

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df33702021 t1_isuw8vh wrote

It's actually the $4 area, not $3.

Did you not read anything I wrote?

Add to that, you seem to take joy in me having to pay more for propane. What's wrong with you?

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