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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ivo6xn0 wrote

Reply to comment by [deleted] in Why Phil Scott again? by rufustphish

PFML is hard on small businesses. I watched it come into effect in Massachusetts while working for a small business before moving home to start my own. It’s one of those bills that’s really well intentioned but horribly implemented.

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rufustphish OP t1_ivoevf3 wrote

If you're company can't afford to pay people and treat them fairly, you don't deserve to have a business. Why does your right to own a business trample others rights to work for a livable wage and adequate time off?

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ivof8de wrote

I mean, that is exactly what happened in the example I gave. My previous employer shut down the vegetable side of the operation, which caused 4 people to lose their job.

If you want to pass legislation to shut down small business that’s fine, but you should have to own that. Don’t pass it off as saying it’s legislation for “workers rights”

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rufustphish OP t1_ivoga1c wrote

I see you lack the empathy to realize the company owner made the choice to lay off those folks, not the government.

The owner failed to plan. No one has the right to own a business if they can't respect their workers rights.

I'm also perplexed how such a small company of 5 people would fall under this law, but I have not read it.

Not surprised you work in Agriculture with these opinions though. Seems workers rights are not respected much in that industry from my experience.

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Electrical-Bed8577 t1_iwakdg8 wrote

Sounds like the child bearing couple failed to plan. Then failed to notify the very small business for six months. Or, no one wants to ag-temp? Find that hard to believe. Are we talking about more than one business here? Zzzz. Either way, should be a federal law.

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Twombls t1_ivoig0e wrote

I agree with this. We need paid family leave.

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[deleted] t1_ivo72se wrote

[deleted]

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ivo7qzu wrote

Never been a small business owner, have you. Absurdly long family leave isn’t possible on many small businesses. You’ve got to replace that position while that employee is out, if that employee is more than a mindless drone that gets damn near impossible.

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[deleted] t1_ivo7zdq wrote

[deleted]

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ivo8x29 wrote

Your comment makes zero sense to mine. I’m not stuck as a employer. I made the choice to follow my dreams and start my own business. There’s nothing bleak about my tea, and the banks aren’t involved or winning anything here.

Say I diversify and open a vegetable farm alongside my current operation. Say my vegetable managers wife gets pregnant and is due in July. Under Massachusetts new law the manager of my vegetable operation is now eligible for 8 weeks paternity leave. I can’t replace this manager as someone who would be capable of doing this job during the busy period isn’t looking for an 8 week temp job. I can’t take on the management as this is also my busiest time of the year. I can’t legally fire this manager and hire a new one. The only option I have left is to close the vegetable operation down.

I watched this happen at the last job I had before going off on my own and moving home.

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Generic_Commenter-X t1_ivoavpx wrote

We should have family leave in this country but this should be done and supported at the federal level. The problem is that unlike Europe, the US lacks the cultural and political maturity to enact policies like these and for Vermont to support them alone would be exorbitant; and it's too much to ask of small business owners without adequate funding.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ivobxhf wrote

I’ll tentatively agree with you here. But I also don’t trust the federal government to do pretty much anything. These policies can work great in small wealthy nations, but for better or worse, that is not the US.

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Generic_Commenter-X t1_ivodwz5 wrote

Generally speaking, private industry does a much worse job running "pretty much anything" than government. For example, infrastructure and public transportation. The US Military is government run and nobody fucks with our military. If you want to live in a country and under a government managed by unregulated private interests and industry—the environment, the military and infrastructure—there's always Russia. There's a reason so many US Conservatives idolize the likes of Putin and Orban.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ivoel8o wrote

I’m honestly not conservative or liberal, I vote by issue and which candidate I think best reflects my views on the issues I believe are important at the time. And I’ll agree that private business is not the answer for many of our problems as well. To be honest, I don’t think there is an answer to many of our problems that involves anything but ourselves at a personal level.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ivoeoqp wrote

For what it’s worth, I agree with your sentiment. I just don’t see how it’s possible to apply in the United States.

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Generic_Commenter-X t1_ivoioyv wrote

It's a constant struggle... Just keep voting, just keep voting... (sung to the tune of Just keep swimming....)

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rufustphish OP t1_ivof7f8 wrote

Why are your rights as a business owner more important than your workers right to have paid family leave?

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ivofj2v wrote

Why are you against small business in a state that the majority of employees work at one? Do you only want soul sucking mega corporations in the state?

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rufustphish OP t1_ivogorw wrote

What a logical leap you just took. Never said anything about being against small business.

I own a small business.

What I said was, if you can't afford to respect your workers rights, you don't deserve to be in business.

Seems like we're never going to agree on that point, good luck in your hiring.

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Outrageous-Outside61 t1_ivoh9s5 wrote

I mean you support legislature that disproportionately effects small business. It’s not much of a leap from A to B. PFML is much easier on a large corporations with many employees than it is on a small business. I’m curious what your business is with your attitude.

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Eagle_Arm t1_ivolw9h wrote

Don't think that was said. The example has already been brought up if someone leaves for 8 weeks at a small business.

The work doesn't stop and finding someone to do a job for only 8 weeks is a difficult task. Let alone if the job is technical. How many jobs can someone just show up, do the same work for 8 weeks, and just leave?

It's an example based in the reality of the situation. Would businesses like to give employees time off? Absolutely. Why wouldn't they? I want to be a part of that world where it's possible. Is it feasible? No, so it doesn't happen.

It works at a large business with 1000 employees who can take that work and spread it out over that 8-12 weeks. But a small business with anywhere from 3-20 employees, not an easy task.

Don't get me wrong, I want to be able to take that leave and have my coworkers take it too, but for a small business, it's not a realistic option.

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vtviking t1_ivpu3t8 wrote

Well under your plan the business closes so no one has family leave

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