joeydokes t1_j2xdwlf wrote on January 4, 2023 at 4:50 PM

Reply to comment by Outrageous-Outside61 in Vermont Winters by Outrageous-Outside61

I'm glad our convo got to this point because the way you put your original argument seemed to give short shrift to the new reality. That the odd weather day was unrelated; it is, insofar as it will only be odder.

I'd about given up on annuals completely and went perennials whereever possible. Ash is sad, hemlock too. Have you had/asked a forester to pay a visit, its free. Same with coop Xtension.

Horticulture-wise, If you have the space/ability/inclination ... I would suggest you get a beehive or two. Free-range guineas (or chickens) are a big plus too for aeration and killing ticks. I.E. think synergistic where able.

Good Luck!

Outrageous-Outside61 OP t1_j2xfab9 wrote on January 4, 2023 at 4:59 PM

We commercially raise hogs and beef. About 1200 butcher weight hogs and 60 finished beef per year, farm about 500 acres and have around 200 acres of woodlands. I also work part time on a 40k tap maple operation. I work with a forester constantly, and we’ve had a lot of conversations about shifting species and how to manage for the inevitable.

With the annuals/perennials I’ve found that our cool season perennials just aren’t doing as well, and I’m planting more warm season annuals following the pig rotations to be grazed off, instead of trying to get my perennial rotation started immediately, 20 years ago we didn’t have the climate to do that IMO.

As far as my initial comments, I just truly find it extremely frustrating how people on both sides of the debate can’t separate weather from climate. I’m not at all a climate change denier, I just believe that being accurate matters.

joeydokes t1_j2xrbkq wrote on January 4, 2023 at 6:13 PM

> can’t separate weather from climate

I get that. And I was just homesteading, living off land; with chickens, rabbits, summer pigs.... You're on a whole other level, problems different from, say, a dairy farmer but in same boat as them (succession, COL, markets...). Good luck to you!

FWIW, since you're doing beef (angus?), maybe look into raising mini-deer; a few years back it looked kind of promising. Back in my advocacy days (dealing mostly with issues regarding high feed costs, low cull prices, difficulty finding help, succession...) I realized that VT does grass best; and pity that the 400K lamb carcas market from Boston-to-Baltimore was lost to the New Zealanders :(

Had a pitch to fix that but it was too much of a stretch.

Outrageous-Outside61 OP t1_j2y61rj wrote on January 4, 2023 at 7:43 PM

We primarily raise dairy beef crosses, but from some friends that are still milking who AI their bottom 80% of the herd to beef and use sexed semen on the top 20% of their herd for replacements. We do have about 20 cow calf Herefords, but in general it’s more economical to raise a “waste product” aka dairy bull calves, and kind of completes a missing loop in the food chain.

Captive cervid farming scares the shit out of me, as captive deer have been the primary spreader of CWD, which as an avid hunter I’m very concerned about. But lamb is something we may be diversifying into as well, possibly this coming year. We’ve also thrown around the idea of doing a value added dairy product, but we are on year two of going off on our own and I want to get the pork expansion figured out first (it’s primarily just me, we have two very young children so my wife doesn’t do an awful lot with the farm)

Anyways, it’s been nice chatting with you! Hope you get the ruts smoothed out around your place before it freezes back up this week!

joeydokes t1_j2yaii4 wrote on January 4, 2023 at 8:10 PM

> captive deer have been the primary spreader of CWD,

Hadn't considered that, my info was kinda stale.

> lamb is something we may be diversifying into

Good luck with that. Friends at Grayrock farm did sheep for decades; tough nut to crack if not at scale.

> doing a value added dairy product

Value-added and niche products are likely what's going to save or preserve small farmers; and (sadly) having local markets that can afford those higher prices. (Have you considered hemp?)

For the record, wife-n-me sold the homestead 1.5yrs ago and moved to Maine. Besides issues of age and the labor involved keeping a big(ish) place, the burden if anything happened to either one of us, ..., the COL just got too high to make sense staying.

My sister works a good sized dairy farm down near Castleton; they're organic and getting by, but the grind is real. You're a true VT farmer, whether inherited or of the 'gentleman' variety. Its a dying breed and is what's preserved that pastoral look which attracts so much tourism. Succession this next decade is going to be a challenge at best to stave off even more consolidation. Good luck in your endeavors!