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JudgeHoIden t1_j4wi7d9 wrote

Why does the title have apology in quotes? It was a genuine apology. I swear people won't accept any outcome other than "I am going to disappear forever, live a miserable life, and give all my money in perpetuity to the victims". Sorry, but that isn't reality.

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streetbum t1_j4wohj7 wrote

People swear there’s no such thing as cancel culture but idk what else you can call this.

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Markantonpeterson t1_j4wwzd1 wrote

So cancel culture is OP putting apology in quotes? I'd agree it's an unnecessary way to frame it, but not sure why it's a dead giveaway that cancel culture exists. And if you look at the whole response to the controversy as "cancel culture", then that's just dumb. I'm a huge fan of Channel 5 and Andrew, but this shit is fucked up, and an apology is so far from absolving him here. Especially when it was undoubtedly a planned PR move, I do think it was genuine, but it's still very much based around saving his career. I would just call this "dealing with the consequences", not cancel culture.

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streetbum t1_j4wx943 wrote

The top multiple posts on the channel 5 sub are currently a stickied post telling people to cancel their channel 5 patreon, news about Tim and Eric cutting ties with him because of this, and this video. It’s an active cancellation. He’s losing his career right as he finally made it. If people aren’t willing to accept an apology and multiple actions being taken on his part to fix his behavior, then you’re just trying to cancel him…

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Markantonpeterson t1_j4wzlvd wrote

Again.. you're just listing consequences. These accusations aren't minor, it wasn't just one or two. It wasn't just a politically incorrect tweet. It is a serious situation. I think that's the main disconnect here, I don't think you agree with how serious it is. It seems obvious to me people aren't just gonna accept an apology for this and pretend like nothing happened. Tim and Eric don't want to be associated with someone who sexually assaulted someone. He said he was taking actions to fix his behavior, but that doesn't mean everything's suddenly all good. And if there were no repercussions for what happened he may not change at all. People should know that if you sexually assault multiple people that you may lose a big partnership with public figures. Your community may go against you. That just seems fair to me. I also don't think it's a new cultural thing, other then people now care about sexual assault.

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streetbum t1_j4wzwxl wrote

It’s he said she said. No one has proven anything. This is a mob trial with torches and pitchforks. This is not justice. It’s a mob imposing their vision of accountability after he said she said comments. It’s a cancellation.

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Aphor1st t1_j4x5v2f wrote

He admitted to doing it in his apology? Also there is a ton of people on death row on eye witnesses accounts with no other evidence. That is also he said she said.

“I think for a long time, I was behaving in a way that I actually thought was normal. I thought that, you know, going home from the bar alone made you a loser. I thought that persistence was a form of flattery. And I thought that you know, if at first somebody was reluctant, you know, they’re playing hard to get just try harder,” he said. “And if you think someone’s feeling you, you know, make a physical advance and see if they go with it.

“And I think that especially I realized when so many young people, especially young men rushed to defend me when this stuff first started coming out that this type of sex pest behavior is normalized. And a lot of people think this stuff is normal,” he continued. “And I don’t think that it is and I think that I want to be fully responsible for not having a fluid understanding of consent. And what enthusiastic two-way consent looks like.”

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Vlad__the__Inhaler t1_j4zpruj wrote

So admitting your mistakes and genuine regret are a reason for witch hunts?

The cries for cancelation started right after the accusations, not after him admitting his guilt. And let's be fucking real. Being pushy and pressuring someone to consensual sex is a shitty thing to do, but it is NOT the same as sexual Assault.

But sure, let's treat him like Harvey winesteins little nephew...

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Visual_Ebb6867 t1_j50cadj wrote

It’s not a witch hunt when the dude came out and admitted he’s a witch lol. Witch hunt implies it’s all fake

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Aphor1st t1_j50jvt9 wrote

People how commit sexual assault should be punished. Being a sex pest, which he admits to, is a form of sexual assault. This dude will probably never see a jail cell so he should lose his career instead.

An apology does not make the trauma that these women suffered though go away.

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Vlad__the__Inhaler t1_j50s9fd wrote

It doesnt. But i would rather show people that admitting mistakes and making amends is the way to go.

He didnt rape the victims. He didnt commit murder. But people act like he did.

Admitting his actions is something most people in this spineless society wouldn't even consider. Acting like that makes it worse is ridiculous.

Let him face the consequences. But give him the opportunity to do better than he did in the past.

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Aphor1st t1_j50tdwf wrote

Yes he can have to opportunity to do better but he no longer deserves to be in the public eye. Also being a sex pest is a form of rape. It’s called sexual coercion. Forcing women to consent is not consent it’s rape.

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yes_but_not_that t1_j4x8ydp wrote

You asked if "cancel culture" was putting "apology" in quotes. So they actually listed the things that happened. This goal post moving that's very popular in discussions like this feels so eerily similar to the narcissist's prayer:

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.

What is the appropriate goal for a person who did something fucked up? For them to become better? Or for them to hurt? Sometimes hurt can be a helpful path to betterment, but the idea that it's a necessary requirement is deeply weird, bordering on sadistic.

I've seen a lot shitty people become better without being globally shamed to the brink of suicide. It's truly sad that online mobbing is so normalized that an entire generation sees it as the natural "consequence". There are other, better options.

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Markantonpeterson t1_j4xc4og wrote

Lmao, what an odd response. I wasn't moving goal posts, I was responding to his explanation of why it's cancel culture.

The point of this isn't to hurt Andrew. That's a byproduct of him being held accountable. I'm not saying Tim and Eric have to cut ties, i'm explaining why they did. Who is saying that it's necessary to hurt him? You are arguing that this shouldn't ruin his career, but what does that entail? His partners need to keep working with him and his fans can't stop watching him? Anything else is cancel culture?

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yes_but_not_that t1_j4xgey4 wrote

Unrelenting public shaming is what most people mean by "cancel culture", if you're actually asking and not just being obtuse.

There are a lot of consequences and accountability that don't include internet mobs and global shaming. I'm not arguing anything about his career. I'm arguing that public shaming is deeply gross and flawed, and it's sad that so many have embraced it as a natural consequence—the overall tenor of your replies.

You're stepping in and out of having a perspective here but then bring it right back with words like "consequence" and "held accountable". Both those words imply pushing someone to the brink of suicide was deserved. If that's not what you think, feel free to clarify.

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Markantonpeterson t1_j4xjbuy wrote

> but then bring it right back with words like "consequence" and "held accountable". Both those words imply pushing someone to the brink of suicide was deserved.

Woah, WHAT THE FUCK? How the F U C K is that implied? What is wrong with you people? You act like "held accountable" is some vague thing, it fucking isn't. It's actually what Andrew started in his public response. All i'm saying is it's not the end of him taking accountability. Losing his deal with Tim and Eric is part of it to. It's whatever the fuck happens. I was arrested in high school. What happened is everyone I knew learned about it. I was suspended from school and my sports team. I'm not leading some public shaming campaign. I'm explaining why he's facing repercussions. Your claiming i'm advocating for his fucking suicide? What the flying fuck is the matter with you? I'm a huge fan of his, i'm gutted by this. Fuck you people. Seriously, the responses i'm getting here make me fucking sick.

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yes_but_not_that t1_j4xn708 wrote

I'm not sure which "you people" you're lumping me into, but I would at best call myself a casual consumer of his content. Sounds like you might've been a bigger fan. I'm speaking as someone vehemently opposed to public shaming, because it feels fucking medieval.

Are you genuinely asking how that's implied by your responses or just need a moment to feel shock? If you see a global shaming campaign that matter-of-fact put this kid in a pysch ward as "accountability", that implies you believe it was deserved. It's fine that you didn't mean to imply that, which is why I asked you to clarify.

This is exactly my problem with these conversations. No one wants to actually face the harmful, gross realities of public shaming—it's just a leaderless internet trend they can log in and out of. They want to focus on the initial fucked up actions (they were) and then hand-waive the reaction no matter how net-harmful it may be.

And no, going to jail and feeling local embarrassment is not in the same universe as global humiliation. But even what you went through, I'm equally opposed to. I'm genuinely sorry. Any consequence that isn't solely focused on rehabilitation is fucked in my opinion, including the entirety of the prison industrial complex.

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ballebeng t1_j4z23bf wrote

No, sexual assault is what’s deeply gross and flawed.

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ballebeng t1_j4z1yfi wrote

He could work at Walmart or similar as most other people do.

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Sololololololol t1_j4x1t3n wrote

My guy, literally every action can be called a consequence, it’s honestly mindlessly flippant and empty statement. “Oh Tim murdered his wife because she burnt the toast? Sounds like you’re just listing consequences hheuebeuhu”

Like you provide less than nothing to the conversation that lazy analysis like that.

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ballebeng t1_j4z4b49 wrote

No one here is arguing for violence as a consequence.

However, if Tim wanted to have a divorce due to burnt toast, then that is completely his prerogative and such a divorce would be the consequence of her actions.

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Sololololololol t1_j4ze24h wrote

You're missing the point likely because you don't want to follow the logical conclusions so let me make myself more clear.

How about Tim's wife burns the toast so he talks ill of her to everyone and gets her ostracized and fired from her job and kicked out of her friend groups.

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theBizz1138 t1_j52t38h wrote

That’s the cringiest analogy I’ve ever read

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Sololololololol t1_j546odl wrote

Cute how you instantly shut up after I told you to google it 😂

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theBizz1138 t1_j547gq8 wrote

When? There’s nothing in my notifications about googling it. So people make silly cakes. I’m not getting what’s so cringy. And why you think 99% are made just for likes and not a just a picture of silly cake. You haven’t said what is actually cringy. Have you ever seen when someone gives their friend a cane for their birthday? This is what that is.

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Sololololololol t1_j54cv01 wrote

Uhuh.

And since I already said exactly why

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theBizz1138 t1_j55g6ir wrote

So those links don’t say anything about google. I can see you left comments if I look at your history but when you click on them they don’t exist. Are you sure you didn’t edit or delete them? Saying something is cringe isn’t explaining why.

So be you specifically look for an image now your mad you see it? Just because it’s in the google search your searched for doesn’t mean it’s plaguing Reddit.

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Sololololololol t1_j560v1l wrote

Idk what you’re on about, I said to go google image search it cuz you kept insisting.

You honestly are a moron. “Heh give me proof of this happening”

“Okay, here”

“Yeah well, that’s only because you’re specifically searching for it”

“???”

Yeah you ain’t worth the brain cells lost talking to you

And yes, I explained why I find it cringe and if you’re too dull to know how to read that’s on you, you’re literally the only person in this thread who’s this remedial.

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theBizz1138 t1_j562tc0 wrote

I asked you to show me in your feed. You said you seem this stuff all the time… I didn’t believe you. You asked me to specifically google it… how the fuck is googling an image the same as it popping up with out searching in your feed

The things you look at on Reddit are why you see nut sack cakes so much…. What are you looking at?

Again, saying something is cringy does not in anyway explain why other than you said so.

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ballebeng t1_j4zhoau wrote

Imagine comparing burnt toast with sexual assault.

Different actions have different consequences.

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Sololololololol t1_j4zhyf7 wrote

Yeah it’s called an analogy

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ballebeng t1_j52dvgb wrote

No, it is called a strawman.

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Sololololololol t1_j52ko3x wrote

Is that so? I don’t believe you know what that word means. Prove it to me and explain what the straw man is I supposedly used here.

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theBizz1138 t1_j563h02 wrote

People don’t like me because they found out I’m a pervert is a hell of a lot different than ostracizing someone for burnt toast… this is why you’re SO steps out on you

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mark0541 t1_j4yc9kn wrote

People tired of other people getting away with sexual assault?

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[deleted] OP t1_j4wxa2t wrote

[removed]

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streetbum t1_j4wxkl2 wrote

He didn’t rape anyone. Words have meaning and they matter.

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[deleted] OP t1_j4wycp1 wrote

He stealthed a girl. That is rape. You're defending a rapist. It is what it is

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streetbum t1_j4wz9sv wrote

Then it should go to court. The court of public opinion is a fucked up flawed mob trial and it’s awful for us as a society to be doing this. This is cancer. Someone can’t just say “x person did this” and then we collectively ruin their lives over it. That’s not justice. It’s not proof. It’s not anything but stupid reactionary virtue signaling. Everyone just wants to feel superior and sanctimonious and tell everyone how much they care and how much they’re doing. No one wants to have real empathy. It’s ridiculous.

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[deleted] OP t1_j4xgxjc wrote

"I don't believe victims of rape" is less words and gets the same message out

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megabearzilla t1_j4x2ocx wrote

Genuine question as I am OOTL and old. What is stealthing?

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Zillich t1_j4x8y4b wrote

Person agrees to have sex on the condition there is a condom. Said condom is removed mid sex without the other person knowing. Because sex without a condom was not consented to, removing the condom removes the consent. Sex without consent = rape. It also dramatically increases the risk of pregnancy and/or disease transmission.

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Arkeband t1_j4wjrfk wrote

well for starters he denied unknown aspects of the allegations to muddy the waters instead of clearly saying what was correct or wrong about what was alleged.

If your apology is based around “I always take no for an answer” when the entire point of the allegations are that he has a pattern of doing the exact opposite of that, then that’s not an apology, it’s just lying.

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Here4theGB t1_j4wozuj wrote

I think this whole scenario falls in an area that generationally is being worked through and improved as time passes. I'm 30 years old and Andrew is 25 so not too far off. We grew up being fed that you have to chase girls and try to get them to sleep with you (James Bond, Johnny Bravo, hell there are moments in Friends / Seinfeld where protagonists are told "no" initially and keep trying/begging until they are given consent).

He was drunk, Dana and the other girl admitted they gave consent after he continued trying. It's skeevy but I don't think it's something he should be cancelled over. A very close female friend (also 30) told me my senior year of college "the first no doesn't mean no. It means kiss the neck, work the n*pples, and ask again." Her words, not mine. Just an example of the kind of consent culture being perpetuated in the 90's/early 000's.

I think the topic of consent is thankfully being discussed much more broadly than it was when Andrew/myself were growing up. The core message of, "Anything less than an enthusiastic yes is not consent," was never taught to us, and certainly not engrained in us by US society/pop culture. Andrew's apology and the actions he's taking seem heartfelt. I don't think he thinks he's lying... and he is not being accused of rape. They were all drunk and eventually gave consent. The girls regretted it, Andrew blew up, and here we are.

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JudgeHoIden t1_j4wlbrh wrote

I think it was pretty clear that statement did not mean "I always take the first no for an answer". He obviously pressured and coerced these girls into some kind of perceived consent, which is the main issue and debatable if it should be considered consent at all, but he was clearly trying to save face with a technicality by saying "I never actually raped someone when they said no, I just made them say yes against their will".

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Lightsides t1_j4x79y6 wrote

>e obviously pressured and coerced these girls

He pressured them. Did he coerce them? I keep seeing this term being used. To coerce is to persuade using force or threats. Did that happen?

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JudgeHoIden t1_j4xhwwc wrote

Some of the accounts I have seen posted around here said he did use force. So allegedly, I guess?

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Spapadap t1_j4x1ksz wrote

Because people want justice rather than understanding. Both defenders and detractors completely miss the purpose of an apology.

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qa2fwzell t1_j4x4vgh wrote

He needs to stop all sexual predatory in the entire world. That would be a genuine apology.

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KitanaKat t1_j4x135m wrote

I’m confused - are you defending the sex offender here? Because he gave an apology?

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ThatIowanGuy t1_j4wiub4 wrote

Did you watch the video or are you just going to comment on the title?

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JudgeHoIden t1_j4wkodv wrote

I did watch the video and she also used air quotes when she said apology.

It's understandable that she doesn't want to accept his apology but she can't even articulate why. She says she believes everyone can be rehabilitated and change for the better but that she doesn't consider his video an apology when acknowledging how he normalized this behavior and getting help was the crux of his apology.

Like I said, judging by what she said in this video it seems like to her the only justice would be him saying "I am going to disappear forever, live a miserable life, and give all my money in perpetuity to the victims"

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streetbum t1_j4woxpj wrote

Totally agree. He even said he was going to step back from his career for a while and go to AA and make actual changes. What more do people actually want? He didn’t do anything illegal, so obviously no jail. He’s giving up time and money at a critical time in his career now to try to better himself over this. Like you said the only thing more is to devote oneself to the cloth or become a hermit or something and just give everything up forever. It’s a ridiculous idea.

Imo legally speaking he probably shouldn’t have even given him an apology since it probably gives her grounds to sue civilly. He did more than he probably should have in an attempt to do the right thing.

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AsleepBeat1168 t1_j4zowk4 wrote

Sexual assault is illegal, did you even listen to her first videos? He forced himself on her in her car. He didn’t even address anything specific and muddied the waters saying some things were untrue and some were true, without clarifying. He deflected constantly throughout this, blaming alcohol, society “not knowing”. This was a terrible PR “apology”

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streetbum t1_j505och wrote

They didn’t have sex though. And he did eventually get the hint and stop. Did he go too far and need to apologize, definitely. But he didn’t ACTUALLY do anything. Real bad look but if what he says is true I think I can see how this happened without him being some monster.

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