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romacopia t1_iub6og4 wrote

The "rigged market" claim is the dumbest shit on the planet and I see it every day I'm on here. It would fucking vaporize an inconceivable amount of money to artificially maintain an unfair price level on a company of that scale. They'd have to dump hundreds of billions into something that they know is overpriced. Who the fuck is doing this? Why? The MUCH simpler explanation is that you can't handle taking an L.

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stuckindayz t1_iubp6wu wrote

This is the wrong take because you think all orders actually make it to LIT markets (NYSE, etc.) whereas there is 5-6 layers of actual movement with internalization methods.

Gary gensler head of the SEC currently was quoted saying "90-95% of all retail orders do not make it to lit markets" So that means 9-9.5 out of every 10 trades at least by 100's of millions of regular retail never go to market. (or how ever many millions of regular workers invest actively)

So what you could be seeing is internalization methods of not currently settled shares being used to prop up stocks.

EX: I bought 100 shares of apple 3 months ago at $180 (This is not the price from 3 months ago, its just used for an example) but my broker doesn't send it to a lit market, it internalizes it. So I never actually get shares or anything at all other than the digital representation of it and can choose to sell or buy more if need be.

Now 3 months later, the broker is pushed by a large entity to spit out their needed settlement deliveries and market makers and other brokers are instructed to not put sells to the lit market (Let's not forget APEX and Citadel told 50+ brokers to HALT TRADING on a popular stock recently last year and the brokers OBEYED!)

Now this is all done by algo's, cause in 2010-2011 the market crashed when an algo went offline and the ENTIRE market died no buys no sells for 30+ Seconds. LITERALLY.

So the broker pushes its needed settlement to the lit market, fulfilling orders finally required months back, while the sells are held to wait for the same style metric, and the company whose stock is involved in this rockets upwards unnaturally.

This is just a thought exercise. But it technically could be hidden easily and this is how the market works.

You should look into MARKET MAKERS like Virtu

The CEO DOUG CIFU was quoted on air saying "We provide INFINITE liquidity" now if you can provide infinite liquidity for any share on the market, you can also affect the way the INFINITE liquidity directs itself to affect the price of a stock.

You would do this to stave off a margin call/sell obligation that is over-leveraged and would collapse the company instantly

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romacopia t1_iuctnam wrote

The market is a convoluted mess but it is rooted in something very simple - money makes the price move. You HAVE to lose money if you want a price to stay above a certain level and any kind of pressure exists trying to pull it below that level. Even if the loss is entirely in opportunity cost, you must lose. There is no winning strategy that involves propping up a price like weekend at bernie's. Ask the GME cult's ex wives.

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stuckindayz t1_iud6m8d wrote

You just don't get it.

The market, where the prices move, are kept away from most orders. The order flow of purchases and sells is being manipulated at high speed with algorithm's to use math to move the stock.

If 90-95% of all orders are kept internalized by an algo and never make it to market, not only does the price NOT move because NO orders go to the market, but due to the systems fail-to-deliver settlement period, most times YOU dont get fuckin ANYTHING other than 1's and 0's visually displaying that you own stock.

SO months later they'll us this purchase or sell via the algo into the market when need be in blocks of 100 or whatever is needed. This settles their failure-to-deliver while giving them actual orders to use at their whim.
The algo will use these to skim pennies off of to make $, or they will lost small amounts of $ to drop it, so that way their hedges, derivatives, etc make MORE $ than the cost to drop it with all the "Non-settled" orders in the system.

Most times with pay for order flow they can MAKE profit off this type of movement.

The GME Comment was lame as fuck, most those "Cultists" Know vastly more than you regarding the actual way the stock market moves.
You shouldn't bandwagon onto social media style team hating, it's fuckin sad.

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romacopia t1_iuik49w wrote

I realize this is an old conversation and I should probably just leave it, but I want to set it straight.

When an institution internalizes your order, it is functionally identical to them inversing your position as far as their books are concerned. It is true that they don't bring your order to market, but they also don't bring their own inversion. They also do this at your discretion, not theirs. They gain the option to bring your order to market at their discretion which, again, is functionally identical to closing out the inverse of your position. You also have the right to send an order to close your position at your discretion which the institution also internalizes, effectively closing their inverse position on their books - but not the open market.

If they brought these exact trades to market together instead, it would only increase volatility, not move the market directionally. All they really gain by doing this is eliminating the risk of slippage when making large trades, plus whatever fees and commissions they collect. They still realize the P/L of the spread between when you open your position and either when they close their internal inverse position or when you close your position. When they choose to bring your order to market, yes, the market moves, but they also must still realize a loss if they are in the red. If they bring your order to market to (effectively) close their internal position while yours is still open with them, the market moves against you AND them, because they're now in an identical position to you in the open market until you close out and they bring your closing order to market.

Internalization doesn't give them the ability to manipulate the market in their favor. What they gain is the elimination of slippage. You can also benefit from this through reduced volatility on the open market. You can trade with narrower stops and profit targets.

Also, I don't care about the internet bandwagon. I personally think the dialogue around GME is eerily similar to online conspiracy groups and it creeps me tf out. Also I think the whole thing is a giant FOMO and the squeeze squoze a long time ago. You do you, though.

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stuckindayz t1_iujlcwe wrote

Anti Evil reddit deleted this on me... StupiD words.
" It is true that they don't bring your order to market, but they also don't bring their own inversion. They also do this at your discretion, not theirs."
No they don't, they use the inversion of someone else's trade that hasn't settled yet either buy or sell. They own both sides of a full trade internalized.
"When they choose to bring your order to market, yes, the market moves, but they also must still realize a loss if they are in the red. "Losing a current trade in this market is akin to losing a single soldier in the battle. It's irrelevant as it's volume that is important. Every purchase and sell by an individual internalized is an up and down movement they can further utilize. All this done by algos. They'll on purpose lose thousands of trades to WIN a hedge/derivative betting against those trades they used. The individual trades are pawns. Again all ago's. all attached.
"Internalization doesn't give them the ability to manipulate the market in their favor. What they gain is the elimination of slippage. You can also benefit from this through reduced volatility on the open market. You can trade with narrower stops and profit targets."Yes although true for eliminating slippage, you forget that internalizing is not JUST a buy or JUST a sell, it's the entire transaction. each has it's own "period" of time before it's required to be sent to an external market, if it's not just wiped internally.
I could buy a 100 block share of Tesla, and 37 days later I sell. there's still 53 days left to actually buy *potentially longer* the actual block, or just nullify it. So on day 85 it uses your 100 share block purchase for its own purpose to move the stock, and then uses your sell order on day 88 to make a profit on the move.
"Also, I don't care about the internet bandwagon. I personally think the dialogue around GME is eerily similar to online conspiracy groups and it creeps me tf out. Also I think the whole thing is a giant FOMO and the squeeze squoze a long time ago. You do you, though."
No it's eerily similar to Tesla. These people aren't Conspiracy regards they're bandwagon investors. This is Tesla 2.0 regarding GME, i know it's brick n mortar I know its NFT Jpegs but the CULT is the exact same as TSLA in 2012-2018 era and I'll ride ANY financial cult cause those morons refuse to sell which even WARREN BUFFET famously states all short sellers are just future buyers, so they just cultishly out wait anyone betting against people willing to worship a south american (sl()ave) < they deleted my comment cause of that word... mine owners kid. It's fuckin dumb on both sides but im here for money.

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stuckindayz t1_iujmrbw wrote

>Ya don't worry about this, I'm up for discussion about this as deep as you need to go. It's critical we start to understand the stock market is not what it was supposed to be, or agreed to midway, and the end stages are just superman3/office space skimming and manipulation combinations that are decimating the retail investor

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Ape_GME t1_iud5owf wrote

Plunge Protection Team

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Ape_GME t1_iud77eb wrote

This is the nerdiest thing I have ever seen. And really to think that the PPT is a joke is ignorant.

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TheResistancexz t1_iubut40 wrote

Buddy I think you're misinformed lol. I'm not disagreeing with everything you said but if you don't think they have the power to CONTROL stock prices in the MM favor then you've not spent enough time in the market watching price action

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