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CombyMcBeardz t1_isuxhlc wrote

Reply to comment by Brickleberried in D.C. Council Prepares To Vote On Overhaul Of Criminal Code by LocalBearEnthusiast

That's cool and all that you think you know better than the 120+ years of experience that sits on the Supreme Court bench.. but you could at least read the Opinion from the case and see that prior cases dating back pre-1890 long established the definition of "petty" offenses not being covered by the Constitution.

It's easy for you to sit there today and say "the Constitution is written plainly!" but it is a whole other thing to look at the context and realize that words had different meanings in 1787. Crime and punishment were so different back then, and even the concept of an organized Police Department wasn't really established yet at the time.

The context matters.

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Brickleberried t1_isv23ng wrote

It's very easy to sit here today and say that "all crimes" means "all crimes" because that's what it fucking says.

Imagine living in 2022 and still thinking that the Supreme Court doesn't just make shit up sometimes.

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CombyMcBeardz t1_isv4at1 wrote

You obviously haven't read the case opinion or done any research at all on the historical context of the word "crime."

Page 59/60 goes in depth into the historical definition of the word "crime" and how it did not include misdemeanors in how we now classify things. The founders literally had two words for what we know today as "crime." The Supreme Court didn't just pull shit out of nowhere in their decision, they viewed it in the historical context of the language.

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Brickleberried t1_isv7stv wrote

I just read that, and it literally supports what I said. "All crimes" means "all crimes".

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CombyMcBeardz t1_isvb0uq wrote

It.. doesn't support your view, at all?

The text explains that "Crimes" in the context of 1787 meant crimes above what we now call Misdemeanors. There's a reason section 4 of Article 2 specifies "crimes and misdemeanors" for which conviction would remove a President and other Executive Officers from power.

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Brickleberried t1_isvkojg wrote

> A crime, or misdemeanor, is an act committed, or omitted, in violation of a public either forbidding or commanding it. This general definition comprehends both crimes and misdemeanors; which, properly speaking, are mere synonymous terms; though in common usage the word 'crimes' is made to denote such offenses as are of a deeper and more atrocious dye; while smaller faults and omissions of less consequence are comprised under the gentler name 'misdemeanors'

And:

> Constitution. But the unanimous court, speaking by MR. CHIEF JUSTICE TANEY, held that "the words, 'treason, felony, or other crime,' in their plain and obvious import, as well as in their legal and technical sense, embrace every act forbidden and made punishable by the law of the State. The word 'crime' of itself includes every offense, from the highest to the lowest in the grade of offenses, and includes what are called 'misdemeanors,' as well as treason and felony."

> Most of the currently accepted definitions of the term "crime" are in harmony with the above statement of MR. CHIEF JUSTICE TANEY. Thus BISHOP, in his NEW CRIMINAL LAW, says, "A crime is any wrong which the govern- ment deems injurious to the public at large, and punishes through a judicial proceeding in its own name." ? 32. And again: "We have three degrees of crime,-the highest being called Treason, the intermediate grade Felony, and the name of the lowest being Misdemeanor." ? 602. BLACK'S LAW DIC- TIONARY says: "The better use appears to be to make crime a term of broad and general import, including both felonies and misdemeanors, and hence covering all infractions of the criminal law. In this sense it is not a technical phrase, strictly speaking (as 'felony' and 'misdemeanor' are), but a con- venient general term. In this sense, also, 'offense' or 'public offense' should be used as synonymous with it." BOUVIER'S LAW DICTIONARY defines "crime" as "An act committed or omitted in violation of a public law forbidding or commanding it * * * A wrong which the government notices as injurious to the public, and punishes in what is called a criminal proceeding in its own name." And the CENTURY DICTIONARY defines it as "An act or omission which the law punishes in the name and on behalf of the State, whether because expressly forbidden by statute or because so injurious to the public as to require punishment on grounds of public policy; an offense punishable by law."

All that is exactly what I said it was.

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CombyMcBeardz t1_isvxkec wrote

> though in common usage the word 'crimes' is made to denote such offenses as are of a deeper and more atrocious dye; while smaller faults and omissions of less consequence are comprised under the gentler name 'misdemeanors'

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