Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

Merker6 t1_ixz8rxi wrote

So reading this article, it really shows some selective analysis that doesn’t really explain it’s very significant finding of road deaths going up 6% dung a lockdown year

First, it claims this to be a “uniquely American” problem, despite Ireland and Switzerland also having shockingly high growths, then also conveniently leaves out traffic fatality rates in China or India. China has one of the fastest growing car ownership rates in the world, and it’s building highways as much as its building heavy rail and public transit.

Second, it doesn’t answer the fundamental question of how there was a 6% jump in the US (plus Switzerland and Ireland) during the lockdown year that saw exceptional decreases in driving. They use percentages of growth, but that only tells part of a story; what were the actual share of pedestriaj and cyclist involved accidents overall? Were greater numbers of cyclist in urban centers like DC contributing to the growth, or could it be explained by other issues like people returning to the road after extended periods of not driving? They also cite things like cars getting bigger, but frankly even cars from the 50s going at even moderate speeds can be deadly, so where’s the actual connection? An on top of this, they spend a lot of time talking about highway and road construction, then drop in how a spike in reckless driving was considered the biggest contributor; what difference does a speed limit make when people ignore it?

I guess this turned into an essay, but it’s just incredibly frustrating to see such massive issues in everyday life getting such a terrible article written about it

17

Brawldud t1_ixzbt0b wrote

A popular theory is that in 2020, the amount of congestion decreased, which meant motorists spent more time driving at higher speeds that both increased both the likelihood that they would hit someone and the likelihood that hitting someone would kill them.

I don't think the article is super rigorous about making this point but the bit where they talk to Polly Trottenberg strongly suggests it.

28

thekingoftherodeo t1_ixzgqh8 wrote

> First, it claims this to be a “uniquely American” problem, despite Ireland and Switzerland also having shockingly high growths,

Just to fact check this from an Irish perspective: the growth you see in the NYT chart is from an already very low base. We have one of lowest death rates per capita in the world at 2.2/100k inhabitants. That's a result of focused policing, improvements in both cars and infrastructure and borderline zero tolerance for DUI.

Speaking as an ex-pat here, it blows my mind how accepted driving after a lot of drinks is over here - people think nothing of it.

21

SquishWindow t1_ixzmpqj wrote

> They also cite things like cars getting bigger, but frankly even cars from the 50s going at even moderate speeds can be deadly, so where’s the actual connection?

There has been a lot of study of this particular issue, linking larger cars both to disproportionately high rates of pedestrian crashes and do higher fatality rates in the crashes that happen. Here is some research from IIHS, for example. I don't think this is a particularly controversial empirical point. Of course any car can be deadly, but taller, heavier, faster cars are more likely to be deadly (one of the things that is likely to be harmful about the EV revolution), and larger vehicles have more visibility limitations than smaller ones.

Anecdotally, if you look back through the pedestrian & cyclist deaths in DC, I think you will see "large vehicle turns into a pedestrian or cyclist" is probably the biggest recurring theme.

9

cooler266 t1_ixzfb9n wrote

If people are ignoring the speed limit, you turn to infrastructure changes so people drive slower, eliminating slip lanes, no 5 lane roads in ‘walkable’ neighborhoods, or if you do add in pedestrian islands, etc.

If the focus is on road deaths, why bring up the red herring of cyclists and pedestrians? Pedestrians aren’t killing people, cars are.

To your point about cars from the 50s, they even talked about how cars today are bigger, faster, and higher (this last especially kills many more peds).

7

WontStopAtSigns t1_iy05gvk wrote

I would like to note that the United States NEVER had a lockdown. Irish and Swiss did.

−4

CrownStarr t1_iy3og5l wrote

If you drove anywhere in the first 6 months or so of the pandemic you know that there was a huge change in the number of people driving, so this nitpicking isn’t really relevant here.

2

Quelcris_Falconer13 t1_iy2rhu6 wrote

🙄

0

WontStopAtSigns t1_iy2t0lu wrote

Words matter, don't rewrite history.

1

Quelcris_Falconer13 t1_iy2tu0e wrote

Lol we had a lock down just because individuals choose not to follow the rules doesn’t mean we didn’t try.

−2

WontStopAtSigns t1_iy2uopn wrote

Comparing what you did versus what was done in Europe, you will find two remarkably different experiences.

2

Quelcris_Falconer13 t1_iy2ut1n wrote

Comparing us to Europe is stupid. We had a war roughly 250 years ago to not be like them.

0

WontStopAtSigns t1_iy2v25v wrote

Oh ya, I bet you're Washington's direct descendent.

Judging by your ignorant but still arrogant tone, I'm guessing your ancestors were Confederates fighting against the United States a little while later.

0

Quelcris_Falconer13 t1_iy3j1w0 wrote

Such a stupid and immature insult to make. This conversation is pointless and you came here just to bicker. 🙄

0