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the_bagel_warmonger t1_j0bphw0 wrote

Reply to comment by PrestigiousEbb4608 in How transit affects emissions: A map of average household CO2 emissions, with Metrorail routes added by Golden_Kumquat

Once again, that is completely refuted by the extremely wealthy, transit rich neighborhoods with lower than average emissions which can be found on this map, like Capitol Hill and Manhattan.

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PrestigiousEbb4608 t1_j0bpzca wrote

Exceptions to not refute the general consensus. Living in Capitol hill or Manhattan with a car can be extremely inconvenient between street parking, cost of private parking, and downtown traffic.

Plus everything that you will want to take your car to (whether it’s dinner or work) will also require a high cost to drive the vehicle.

But the wealthiest neighborhoods, like parts of PG county, Potomac, Great falls, etc., will never have those residents using the metro even if it’s somewhat close to their house.

It would be more of a hassle to drive to the metro, park, get on the metro, back on the metro, car, then drive home.

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PrestigiousEbb4608 t1_j0bqr72 wrote

But that doesn’t even get to my main point. Irregardless of metro access, someone single living in a studio apartment making $45k per year, will never match the total emissions or carbon offset or whatever you call it, to the family with combined income of $500k living in a 6 bedroom house and 3 cars. Groceries, vacations , clothes. All produce emissions. Even if the entire family uses the metro, it will do nothing for the rest of their output.

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the_bagel_warmonger t1_j0btc2p wrote

That lifestyle is incompatible with increased density and transit access. You're making my point for me. People in the richest parts of Manhattan are just as rich as the people in potomac, and yet they live in condos, walk, bike, take transit, and if they own a car, it's less cars that are driven less than they are in potomac.

The NYT data includes flights, goods, and services purchases. Despite ALL that, those ultra wealthy parts of Manhattan still have lower emissions than the rest of the country.

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the_bagel_warmonger t1_j0brqn8 wrote

Ease of car use is directly opposed to ease of transit/walkability/bikability. You can't have good transit/walkability/bikability with ubiquitous parking and car dependent infrastructure. So you're setting up an absurd hypothetical where driving was easy AND walking, transit, and biking were also easy THEN the rich would still use their car.

But those things can't coexist. Car infrastructure and culture is actively hostile and disruptive to all other forms of transportation. Good transit and walkability necessitates it being more difficult to drive.

So if anything you've just changed the nature of the second order causation from

Transit -> More housing -> less emissions

To

Transit -> less driving -> less emissions.

It's still causation.

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