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ulmen24 t1_je9dl9j wrote

Reply to comment by Woodlog82 in Kabul’s only library for women closes due to Taliban threats and harassment by SinbadMarinarul

This is made possible by Biden’s hand over of Afghanistan, FYI

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GoofAckYoorsElf t1_je9epn6 wrote

Which Trump initiated in the first place. This finger-pointing is ridiculously easy to see through.

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ulmen24 t1_je9k4wx wrote

Reread your sentence. Biden was the president at the time, and defied all of his military advisors by withdrawing

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GoofAckYoorsElf t1_je9ln12 wrote

Biden was president when the last soldier left the country. Trump was the one who initiated the withdrawal and negotiated the contract with the Taliban. A contract that isn't worth the paper it is printed on. And it was Bush who initially sent the troops there. So stop blaming Dems for something the Reps fucked up!

What should Biden have done? Send them all back in?

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ulmen24 t1_je9m4i2 wrote

He should have listened to his military advisors. He didn’t need to “send them all back in” as they hadn’t left yet. A satellite force (like we have in countries all over the world) would have been acceptable. That or maybe (if it really was such an awful contract and Biden knew the Afghan forces would fall to the Taliban) withdraw our billions of dollars worth of military equipment before we left? I’m not a military mastermind, I’m just using common sense here. Biden spent his first 100 days undoing all kinds of Trump-era shit. Then, when the shit hits the fan with this, it’s “oh it was trump era shit, my hands were tied”. Give me a break. And for the record, I am NOT a fan of orange man.

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SKT_Phoenix1 t1_jebm8wx wrote

Uhhhh under Trump we went from 13k troops to 2.5k troops and he ignored multiple calls on the dangers of drawdown even from people like Rubio. They HAD left, just not every soldier. Biden was put in an impossible situation where he was obligated to respect a treaty signed by his predecessor but that treaty was just utter shit.

Biden even stated: “it is not my intention to stay there for a long time. But the question is: How and in what circumstances do we meet that agreement that was made by President Trump to leave under a deal that looks like it’s not being able to be worked out to begin with? How is that done? But we are not staying a long time.”

I’d advise maybe getting a bit more acquainted with the events that unfolded, as it is very apparent to pretty much everybody in the thread the narrative you are presenting isn’t quite reflective of the reality of the situation

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/

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ulmen24 t1_jebmtld wrote

I am being downvoted in this sub because I’m not a liberal, don’t get it twisted. But ok, I’ll play. How come in the drawdown from 16k to 2.5k American soldiers and Allies weren’t dying? How come Afghans weren’t hiding on wheelwells and falling to their deaths as planes took off?

I’m not a fan of Trump - quite the opposite. But you are insane if you attribute Trump to Biden defying the requests of his generals and also evacuating military before civilians. Come on.

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SKT_Phoenix1 t1_jebnq4o wrote

> How come in the drawdown from 16k to 2.5k American soldiers and Allies weren’t dying

They were. The Taliban had attacked various places in Afghanistan upwards of 15 times during the drawdown (probably WAY beyond 15, but I don’t have a concrete number that’s defendable so I picked one that seems arbitrarily small)

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/

  • “Defense Department inspector general’s office says, ‘The Taliban did not appear to uphold its commitment to distance itself from terrorist organizations in Afghanistan. UN and U.S. officials reported that the Taliban continued to support al-Qaeda, and conducted joint attacks with al-Qaeda members against Afghan National Defense and Security Forces.’”

  • Sept. 16, 2020 — The Taliban continued attacks on government forces. The Voice of America reported that “Taliban attacks in three provinces across northern Afghanistan since Tuesday killed at least 17 people, including six civilians, and wounded scores of others even as a Taliban political team was negotiating peace with Afghan government representatives in Doha, Qatar.”

  • Defense Department IG’s office released a report for the quarter ending Sept. 30, 2020, that said the peace negotiations between the Afghan government and Taliban representatives had stalled and violence increased. “At the same time, the Taliban increased its attacks against Afghan forces, leading to ‘distressingly high’ levels of violence that could threaten the peace agreement,” the report said.

  • Dec. 2, 2020 — After past false starts, Afghan and Taliban negotiators agree on a framework to govern peace negotiations. “At the same time, the Taliban continued its ‘fight and talk’ strategy, increasing violence across the country to increase its leverage with the Afghan government in negotiations,” the Defense Department IG’s office said

  • Afghanistan’s First Vice President Amrullah Saleh tells the BBC that the Trump administration made too many concessions to the Taliban. “I am telling [the United States] as a friend and as an ally that trusting the Taliban without putting in a verification mechanism is going to be a fatal mistake,” Saleh says, adding that Afghanistan leaders warned the U.S. that “violence will spike” as the 5,000 Taliban prisoners were released. “Violence has spiked,” he added.

All of this was before Biden was elected.

> How come Afghans weren’t hiding on wheelwells and falling to their deaths as planes took off?

Because there were no indications of an imminent government collapse at that point? Some people were sounding the alarm in the US about the dangers (Rubio deserves his credit) but it wasn’t a common position

Biden didn’t nail the situation, but the larger issue was the treaty Trump signed that Biden felt beholden to in order to not diminish US influence abroad, and the troop drawdown which allowed the Taliban to take a more aggressive role even while America was still there

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ulmen24 t1_jebreft wrote

Gtfo of here. Biden felt compelled to withdraw military and leave the allies and citizens behind to make America “not look like liars” to the rest of the world? You know he pushed back the date from May 1 to August 31 right? So clearly, the President of the United States was not powerless to amend the details of the treaty. Biden sat down with George Stephanapolus and told him he would have withdrawn the troops even without Trump’s treaty.

It was either (1) an awful plan by Trump that endangered Americans and Afghan citizens and Biden shouldn’t have gone through with it, or (2) It was a fine plan and Biden went through with it and it was a success. There is no (3) “it was obviously a horrible plan by Trump but knowing this, Biden had to go along with it, less America look like…they won’t hold up their end of terrible treaties? “America needs it to be known that it keeps its word even when the other party doesn’t and when it means millions of people will be left to the predations of terrorists.”

Who do you think lied, the two generals who testified to Congress that they urged Biden to leave 2,500 troops in the country, or Biden who said he received no such advice? No one was sounding the alarm? Why do you think the Generals of the military testified that they told him to keep a satellite force there?

You’re talking to someone who prays that Trump ends up in prison before the primaries. But my God, blaming everything on him needs to stop. “The Buck stops with me” was Biden’s campaign pitch and since then it’s just been a serial blaming of the previous administration.

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[deleted] t1_je9f5b2 wrote

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ulmen24 t1_je9jnb3 wrote

Why did the Biden admin push forward with it? With did they inform us it was going to be such an effective withdrawal? They literally informed us “it won’t be like Vietnam, you won’t see helicopter evacs off of the roof of the embassy. If it was indeed done under Joe Biden in the worst possible way. People hanging off plane wheel wells. Americans are still stuck there, btw. If it were indeed terrible and all orange man’s fault, why in the aftermath was the press secretary bragging how it was all so historic and grand? Why was the admin saying they trust the Taliban?

He “did this to create a terrible situation for Biden”..and then he spent months denying an election and trying to find a loophole to make himself president? What?

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[deleted] t1_je9qevc wrote

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ulmen24 t1_jeaqahb wrote

The Biden administration didn’t “have” to do anything. Again, Biden had no problem upending many other things. And again, everyone knew that was going to happen - hence all of his military advisors telling him not to proceed. here is a NBC report (so you can’t scream “bias”) on the administration botching the withdrawal If you want to argue that Trump signed this agreement and therefore they were “forced” to go forward with it, fine. Was the agreement that the US would evac their military before all of the non-military citizens? Was the agreement that they would surrender all the major airports, leaving only a small one to evac thousands of people? Was the agreement that Afghan allies would fall to their deaths from hanging off wheel wells of flying planes?

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[deleted] t1_jec2du9 wrote

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ulmen24 t1_jec4qr5 wrote

What?

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[deleted] t1_jed36at wrote

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ulmen24 t1_jed3pk3 wrote

What the fuck are you talking about? (1) I am not a fan of Trump. (2) What the fuck does Trump using campaign funds to pay off a pornstar he cheated with have to do with Biden’s botched removal from Afghanistan??

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[deleted] t1_jed5v5i wrote

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ulmen24 t1_jed6awi wrote

I don’t need to reference Trump whatsoever to shit on Biden. He defied the advice of his military personnel and got American service members and allies killed. And now millions of women are living in abject sex slavery all because…what…Biden “Had to go through” with it?

So you’re telling me if in his final days in office Trump signed a treaty with the UK. The treaty of “on may 1st all your women are now sex slaves”, that Biden would have said “ah well gee whiz. It isn’t great but we can’t go back on our word”?

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[deleted] t1_jed9xyc wrote

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ulmen24 t1_jedb6cg wrote

Im not advocating for going back - I’m saying the withdrawal was horrendous, and I wish that had not happened.

I’m glad that you recognize the importance of guns for self defense.

At what point do I let it go? Probably at the point where there aren’t comments on Reddit about how it is Trumps fault that the last female library in Afghanistan has closed.

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[deleted] t1_jee07ew wrote

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ulmen24 t1_jee8aoj wrote

Correct. Why is that math difficult for you?

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[deleted] t1_jeear69 wrote

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ulmen24 t1_jeecwlp wrote

I’m a sociopath because I pointed out the shitty job Biden did, but I also don’t like/support/whatever Trump?

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Woodlog82 t1_je9hw15 wrote

What a embarrassing statement, the Orange Shitstain sat on his tiny hands (probably to feel someone touch him again) and did nothing to prepare for the withdrawal. Of course it was a disaster because he took a giant dump on everything before he left office.

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ulmen24 t1_je9i4w5 wrote

Literally all of Biden’s military advisors told him it was ill advised to withdraw and he did anyway. Now the Taliban has control over millions of women. Thank Biden.

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Savenura55 t1_jeaoo0n wrote

What was he supposed to do break a treaty the previous president signed ? What msg would that send to other nations ? That the us will break a treaty when they want just because ? Your conservative brain rot is showing.

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ulmen24 t1_jeaqptw wrote

Did the treaty include that the military would evac BEFORE the citizens and allies? Here’s a short NBC report admitting the failure . Even my rotted conservative brain knows that you keep military presence until AFTER the civilians are evacuated.

What kind of message would it send? It’s clear that the withdrawal was not successful. American citizens are still stuck there. If you’re saying that the Trump agreement was a “bad” one then the message it would send to other countries would have been “my predecessor made a bad agreement. I’m undoing it because it was bad and this is the right thing to do.”

Again, I am skeptical that Trump promised “I will hastily withdraw everyone in the span of two weeks, first withdrawing the military so that it’s near impossible to protect the only airport. Then I’ll get some service members killed and finically we’ll finish off by leaving Americans and Allies behind and we’ll get the press secretary to spin it as a historic success.”

Who is lying? Two generals testified to Congress that they advised Biden to keep 2,500 troops in Afghanistan. Biden said “military advisers did not tell me to keep troops on the ground past the withdrawal deadline”.

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Woodlog82 t1_jedv1q1 wrote

Meh, I would disagree. Can you try not to gaslight and keep to the topic I brought up? Many republicans seem to want to create a country similar to what the Taliban have. So you are yammering on and on about military arguments but seem to ignore that the women's rights situation in the U.S. is quite dire these days.

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ulmen24 t1_jee8p04 wrote

Women’s rights in the US is dire? You just said that in a post about a country where women over 12 are not allowed to study. Stop it.

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wgszpieg t1_je9htor wrote

Republicans should be overjoyed then, and sing Biden's praises - this is the kind of society they want, after all.

Come to think of it, republicans should encourage the taliban to come over to the us

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vhatvhat t1_je9n3bj wrote

This is the fault of the Taliban, fyi.

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ulmen24 t1_je9noh7 wrote

Are you a “guns don’t kill people” person?

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