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Crimbobimbobippitybo OP t1_jdstac8 wrote

Reply to comment by Neuroprancers in Banksy's migrant rescue ship seized by Italy's coast guard in Lampedusa by Crimbobimbobippitybo

No we don't, that's what failed states, Russia and China do, we're better than that. Even ignoring the moral dimension, it's the rule of law that makes the EU and North America such destinations for tourism and investment.

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Eptagon t1_jdsvxp9 wrote

> we're better than that.

Correction: we ought to be. In reality, we're not. At least not under the current government.

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johndoe30x1 t1_jdsvm0g wrote

In the U.S. you can’t even ask the court if something is legal before the fact. You have to fuck around and find out. (Tax court is a notable exception to this)

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snowtol t1_jduoooi wrote

To be fair, OP did state that this is how it works in failed states.

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Crimbobimbobippitybo OP t1_jdsvt3d wrote

Laws are all matters of public record, what are you talking about?

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johndoe30x1 t1_jdswjdl wrote

Well then I guess we better get rid of all the appellate courts and the Supreme Court if the law is the law and there is no interpretation of matters of law! Seriously though, advisory opinions, reference questions, etc. do exist in some jurisdictions and not in others. I wonder if Italy is one such jurisdiction

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Crimbobimbobippitybo OP t1_jdswuqf wrote

In the US and EU at least all court proceedings are matters of public record, with rare exceptions such as rape shield laws and national security.

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Noredditforwork t1_jdttrtb wrote

You are missing the distinction between codified civil law and common law. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law

Laws get written, then people try to find loopholes and beneficial interpretations, then judges decide if you get away with it.

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Crimbobimbobippitybo OP t1_jdtvtxv wrote

Italy doesn't use common law, they use codified laws. 🙄

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Noredditforwork t1_jdtvyjj wrote

You responded to a comment about US law which is derived from common law.

ETA: lol, blocked me because you can't read or accept a correction, what a twit.

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Crimbobimbobippitybo OP t1_jdtw885 wrote

This is an article about Italy and Italian law, digressions by dafties aside.

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Synkope1 t1_jdu7oz6 wrote

It's not a digression, YOU brought in North America to the discussion. And then when he started talking about US law, YOU engaged. Don't complain about digressions just because you lost an argument, it's embarrassing.

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Neuroprancers t1_jdu4snx wrote

Many laws are passed that are later ruled unconstitutional and repealed, even in stronger democracies.

The particular type of legislation is a "Decreto legge", a fast-track with 1-year duration, which is quite abused by Italian governments. (EG the "milleproroghe", look it up for a failing state)

Also, Oxford comma.

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S_A_N_D_ t1_jdt2rqn wrote

In general, local laws typically superseded maritime laws. Rarely however do local laws conflict in this regard, and usually it's local laws will be a more strict version of the maritime law (such as environmental restrictions). Where this might not hold up is if the vessel was in international waters (more than 12 NM from the Italian coast) then the Italian laws would and could not apply. Then it just becomes a question of access to Italian ports, which isn't guaranteed. I'm not sure how they could be fined however if they were not in Italian jurisdiction and didn't break any IMO law.

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Neuroprancers t1_jdua4j4 wrote

The ship gets impounded as it docks in Italy.

Spain and France are too far, last time Italy forced a rescue ship to drop people in France, France threw a hissy fit and withdrew from some cooperation treaty, Malta refuses to do anything.

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Everyday_Hero1 t1_jdtshqw wrote

Calling those 2 failed states is so stupid. Just because we dont like them, doesnt mean they are failed states.

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Crimbobimbobippitybo OP t1_jdtvwf5 wrote

I didn't call them failed states, learn to read.

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Everyday_Hero1 t1_jdtzhdz wrote

Oh so you are just putting them on the same level as failed states without ACTUALLY calling them failed states.

Makes much more sense........

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GroundbreakingRice36 t1_je60jni wrote

Wrong, EU and North America isn't a destination of tourism and investment because of rule of laws.

For tourism it would be non-industrial countries like Thailand, Phillipines, ..

EU is getting more tourism because of its OLD HISTORY and basically the origin of many invention, ideology, doctrine....NEVER BECAUSE OF THE RULE OF LAWS.

Investments? I would say asians countries is winning the investment category (from China to South East Asia).

Nobody care about EU's moral dimension other than those who want to benefit from it (migrants, workers and refugees) because they know the laws is weaker over there....and more welfare.

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VeryQuokka t1_jdwem6f wrote

Italy's judicial system is that of a failed state. The country sent geologists to jail for failing to predict an earthquake, among other failures.

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