frequenttimetraveler t1_iu38opc wrote
about time for the genocidal nation of canada to face its past
shpydar OP t1_iu4fotw wrote
Every nation in the America's has conducted some form of genocide against the indigenous peoples within their borders. None are immune from their past.
And the genocide began with America's European Colonizers; Britian, Spain, France, Portugal, the Netherland's, Russia, Norway, and Italy.
Canada is the only nation to aknowledge their role, provide restitution, and chart a path forward towards healing and reconcilliation.
It is about time the rest of the America's and the European colonizers to face their past like Canada has.
Shooter2970 t1_iu4ktvj wrote
The Aztecs were enslaving anyone they warred with. Not to mention the human sacrifices. Native Americans were also warring with each other over land well before any European got here. Don't forget to face these facts as well.
axonxorz t1_iu4oc7n wrote
Man, you're just whataboutism in a nutshell, eh?
Shooter2970 t1_iu5mduh wrote
The post above was using whataboutism to describe the rest of the Americas and how European Colonizers started mass genocide. I bring up two more and you say whataboutism. You just hate Europeans in a nutshell right?
axonxorz t1_iu5mvu4 wrote
Dunno how calling you out twice about whataboutism means I hate Europeans, but you continue on the springboard I guess.
You've framed your argument above as if acknowledging that Canada did bad means we are inherently ignoring other times the same bad has been done by someone else. Your coming in to point out that "handy fact" is why it's whataboutism, nobody in this thread said "and everybody else was a saint", as you are implying.
Shooter2970 t1_iu5ntce wrote
Why mention all those others and when I bring up two more you call foul. And I never said anything about anyone being a saint. I brought up past problems with Natives and how they are very similar. Don't just talk about one part of history is the point here. Don't forget the bullshit they were doing to their own people either. Canada is doing the right thing. But can you name me a tribe that will say they are sorry for taking a neighbors land in war? I don't know of any personally.
peacey8 t1_iu4qrrv wrote
Also the cavemen from 50,000 BC
Shooter2970 t1_iu5mv2m wrote
The last Aztec city fell in 1521.
PubliusDeLaMancha t1_iu7erdi wrote
Name an Italian colony in the new world.
shpydar OP t1_iu7gd5t wrote
Italy didn’t successfully establish a colony but they have colonizer status because they attempted to create a colony in what is now French Guiana in 1609.
>Duke Ferdinand I de Medici made the only Italian attempt to create colonies in America. For this purpose the Grand Duke organized in 1608 an expedition to the north of Brazil, under the command of the English captain Robert Thornton. > >Unfortunately Thornton, on his return from the preparatory trip in 1609 (he had been to the Amazon), found Ferdinand I dead and all projects were canceled by his successor Cosimo II.
>The Thornton expedition was a 1608 Tuscan expedition under Captain Robert Thornton, an Englishman, sent by Ferdinando I of Tuscany to explore northern Brazil and the Amazon River and prepare for the establishment of a settlement in northern coastal South America, which would serve as a base to export Brazilian wood to Renaissance Italy. The area that Thornton considered as a possible site of a Tuscan colony now lies in modern French Guiana, near Cayenne, which would be colonised by France in 1630. The expedition was the only attempt by an Italian state to colonise the Americas.
PubliusDeLaMancha t1_iu7wuor wrote
Italy wasn't a country in 1609
shpydar OP t1_iu8im98 wrote
Sure, neither was Canada however we acknowledge that the history of the French and English colonies are still the history of Canada. Similarity as Tuscany is now part of Italy, Italy’s history includes the history of Tuscany.
PubliusDeLaMancha t1_iu94cmp wrote
That's because Canada was part of the British Empire.. the largest colonial empire
Italy was not a colonial power in any traditional sense (aside from a brief period in the 20th century)
I don't see how a failed expedition puts them in the same category as England or Spain..
Would you similarly say Scotland was a colonial power?
shpydar OP t1_iu95r9u wrote
>Would you similarly say Scotland was a colonial power?
Actually yes.
Besides the fact that Scotland and England became the United Kingdom in 1707 making all colonizing actions by the U.K. from 1707 on being done equally by Scotland as they were by England,
>The Darien scheme was an unsuccessful attempt, backed largely by investors of the Kingdom of Scotland, to gain wealth and influence by establishing New Caledonia, a colony on the Isthmus of Panama, in the late 1690s. > >The failure of the Darien colonisation project has been cited as one of the motivations for the 1707 Acts of Union.
However back to your initial point just because Tuscany was absorbed into Italy does not erase its history. Italy absorbed Tuscany’s history when they laid claim to it.
WikiSummarizerBot t1_iu95sqn wrote
>The Darien scheme was an unsuccessful attempt, backed largely by investors of the Kingdom of Scotland, to gain wealth and influence by establishing New Caledonia, a colony on the Isthmus of Panama, in the late 1690s. The plan was for the colony, located on the Gulf of Darién, to establish and manage an overland route to connect the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. The backers knew that the first sighting of the Pacific Ocean by Balboa was after crossing the isthmus through Darién. The attempt at settling the area did not go well; more than 80% of participants died within a year, and the settlement was abandoned twice.
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PubliusDeLaMancha t1_iu9jqru wrote
How long do you want to do this? Just admit you shouldn't have listed Italy among colonial powers
Sure, the Italian nation-state inherited Italy's history of never colonizing the Americas..
shpydar OP t1_iu9kcnt wrote
Why would I admit to something that would be a lie? Especially when I have countered all your questions with cited sources backing everything I’ve said.
You seem to be unwilling, or unable to give me the same courtesy I’ve given you and backed any of your opinionated statements up.
Italy is listed as a European colonization nation as I have shown with sources due to their incorporating Tuscany and its history.
Scotland is also considered a colonizing European nation due to its attempt to colonize in the Americas and its partnership in the U.K.
Perhaps it may be time to educate yourself on European colonization instead of needing me to educate you?
PubliusDeLaMancha t1_iu9nt5q wrote
It is a lie, or rather a falsehood, to say Italy colonized the Americas. That is simply a matter of fact. This one expedition you desperately searched the internet to find rather than concede that point predates Italy by 250 years..
Scotland bankrupted itself so badly in its attempt that it was forcibly joined the UK. Nobody lists either nation among colonizers of the new world. Sure, Scotland may bear some responsibility as part of the British Empire but that's besides the point
shpydar OP t1_iuai7t5 wrote
You ask for my opinion and not only do I give it, I back my statements with credible sources showing how my opinions are based on fact.
You just spew your opinions but your complete lack of anything backing a single thing you have said shows your opinions are not based on anything but your emotions.
I have shown you, with cited sources that Italy and Scotland are both listed as colonizing countries, and I have given you cited sources for the reasons why.
I don’t care that you disagree with the facts, your emotional opinion doesn’t magically make them disappear. I have given you ample space to counter my arguments with credible facts and you have failed to do so.
You have become insulting and demanding that I lie. You are clearly not interested in having a genuine conversation so I see no reason to continue attempting to have one with you.
I wish you all the best in your future endeavours. Good luck to you.
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