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79r100 t1_j5oegxa wrote

Reply to comment by Efficient-Ad-3302 in Brazil's Lula appoints Indigenous ministers to reverse Amazon deforestation by loggiews

The amount of lumber that goes into any residential structure is dumbfounding. I think about that a lot while cutting off the extra 12” from whatever board I’m cutting. And the dumpsters. Oh god, the construction debris.

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SirrNicolas t1_j5p23fn wrote

Think about the metric tons of wood pulp we dispose of instead of recycling into paper products.

Like a cutting board that sends the scraps to the floor

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79r100 t1_j5p6may wrote

It is stomach-turning.

No matter how I do the math when measuring for trim there is always waste. Mistakes, bad pieces, etc.

TBH, the high prices have probably contributed to people being mote cautious with their take-offs for lumber.

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Rreknhojekul t1_j5q115a wrote

Trees are a renewable resource.

It doesn’t really seem like it’s a terrible problem.

You have to also consider that the wood you’re disposing off is mostly made from carbon that’s been pulled from the atmosphere too.

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InfiNorth t1_j5q7k4u wrote

Trees may be renewable, forests are not. When you decimate an entire ecosystem that took thousands of years to become the diverse space that was, it never goes back to what it was.

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Rreknhojekul t1_j5q90hk wrote

It is quite possible to sustainably manage forests. Obviously what is happening in the Amazon is not at all comparable to this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_forest_management

>The stewardship and use of forests and forest lands in a way, and at a rate, that maintains their biodiversity, productivity, regeneration capacity, vitality and their potential to fulfill, now and in the future, relevant ecological, economic and social functions, at local, national, and global levels, and that does not cause damage to other ecosystems.

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InfiNorth t1_j5q9zlx wrote

No, "management" is a human invention to try to take excessive control over the natural environment for the extraction of it's resources.

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EverythingIsDumb-273 t1_j5qceft wrote

Well, true, but that's what we have always done. Even if you live in a cave, you'll still have to extract something.

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InfiNorth t1_j5qm436 wrote

>always done

Sorry, explain to me which indigenous peoples of the Americas clearcut entire mountain ranges and river basins three hundred years ago?

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LongFluffyDragon t1_j5qzniv wrote

This may help

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InfiNorth t1_j5rks3d wrote

You are literally claiming that clearcut logging has "always been done." It hasn't. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary answers.

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LongFluffyDragon t1_j5rl5ts wrote

I am quite sure i never said that, and i cant see any signs anyone else did either. All in your head, clearly time to take a long break.

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godisanelectricolive t1_j5rq3p8 wrote

I'm pretty sure they meant some kind of forest management has always been done, not the practice of clearcutting. I would argue the ancient practice of controlled burning is the perfect example of sustainable forest management that's beneficial to both humans and ecosystems. Far from being pristine wilderness untouched by human activity, Indigenous North Americans have long controlled the types of vegetation in a region using fire. Through controlled burning, they turned forests into grassland, savannah, open woodland and cleared undergrowth in forests to make travel more accessible. Slash and burn agriculture is also a tradition used by the Maya since time immemorial. The Yanomami of the Amazon also used also and burn.

Humans are part of the ecosystem and human intervention has long played a vital role in shaping the natural environment. It's not unnatural to extract resources or actively manage our surrounding environment, we just have to find ways of doing so that is complementary with nature. Logging is not inherently unsustainable, better forestry practices that prioritize preserving old-growth forests and protecting biodiversity are possible. Continuous cover forestry and close to nature forestry are two models that does not destroy the ecosystem and can even help create forests that are more resilient to wildfires. Using lumber does not require the destruction of entire ancient forests.

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EverythingIsDumb-273 t1_j5qc3ar wrote

True. Some places have laws to prevent clear-cutting and the like

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InfiNorth t1_j5qm5av wrote

Name some.

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joeminza t1_j5qmndb wrote

Algonquin park in ontario is a great example of sustainable forestry over a long period of time.

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InfiNorth t1_j5qoy1e wrote

No, it isn't. A park should not be a harvesting space. It is an example of long-term impacts of green washing, misinformation, and the failure of our education system.

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joeminza t1_j5qvnfw wrote

Ok Karen that's nice.

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InfiNorth t1_j5rdey6 wrote

You know you've won when your enemies jump into ad hominem attacks

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joeminza t1_j5re5wg wrote

Interesting take. You've definitely convinced me, I think I'll vote for Trudeau now while I'm at it.

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InfiNorth t1_j5rkld5 wrote

>I think I'll vote for Trudeau now while I'm at it.

Why, who did you vote for last time?

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79r100 t1_j5q3uv8 wrote

Yeah man. Makes sense and is different than what this article is about.

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spiralbatross t1_j5q5veh wrote

We should be using hemp for paper, but god forbid some stoner gets high!

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Blondeambitchion t1_j5p6elq wrote

Almost 50% of trees cut down go to pallets

At least residential structures are somewhat permanent. Pallets have to be replaced every couple years.

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79r100 t1_j5p7aox wrote

Omfg, is that true?

“Cancel that bonfire!!”

Ive always said high quality materials and labor is the greenest way to build. The amount of 10 year old remodels I have torn out is astounding.0

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the_clash_is_back t1_j5pfxvx wrote

Soft wood for residential comes from plantation tree farms. The trees are a crop just like corn, you grow them, cut them then regrow them.

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shipshapeshump t1_j5p903w wrote

It's softwood. stop worrying about it. You can grow a huge pine tree in 10 years.

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79r100 t1_j5pbimr wrote

I hope they are planting that shit fast enough.

Waste is waste.

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shipshapeshump t1_j5pbwhj wrote

People are too selfish. We'll just keep consuming and reproducing and consuming more. these days people think typing shit on line will make a difference. Not so long ago, it was actually a thing that tiktok dancing can help the war in Ukraine.

People are fucked. That's it in a nutshell. We will collectively do ourselves in and the world will be fine without us or with us at hugely reduced numbers.

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HobbitFoot t1_j5pinu5 wrote

It depends where it comes from. A lot of American wood now comes from industrial forests/tree farms.

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seapulse t1_j5pst1q wrote

I’d adore getting wood scraps jsyk so I think you can probably find someone who’s interested

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Hairybard t1_j5q4y42 wrote

Construction waste (hours and materials) is absurdly destructive. Work in constructing and tree planting. A housing revolution is needed.

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JoaoMXN t1_j6lrnhx wrote

This is an american culture because in brazil most houses are made with cinder or ceramic blocks.

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79r100 t1_j6ocoxo wrote

North American culture. Climate has a lot to do with it.

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LloydAtkinson t1_j5pgem2 wrote

Meanwhile other countries use bricks, because they are civilized. You can literally dig clay from almost anywhere on the planet.

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79r100 t1_j5phpza wrote

Have you tried to hire a mason lately?

Holy god, if anyone listening wants to make a good living and feels a little lost- become a brick tender and in 10 years you can name your price.

Make sure to get health coverage and cover yourself on your work comp policy. You’ll need it.

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RoscoePSoultrain t1_j5pr64g wrote

I tried but didn't know the secret tickle handshake.

Seriously though, being a mason is some hard yakka. Very high wrist loads, often with impact, and constant exposure to stone and concrete dust.

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seapulse t1_j5ptluk wrote

Don’t bricks have some amount of sand/concrete in them, which we are also facing a global shortage of? I’m the first person to protest deforestation, but there is something beneficial about a building material being farmable.

oh god minecraft has had it right all along

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Weegee_Spaghetti t1_j5qk1e9 wrote

sand and concrete shortage lmfao.

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seapulse t1_j5qoc8i wrote

Sand, however, is the most-consumed natural resource on the planet besides water. People use some 50 billion tonnes of “aggregate” – the industry term for sand and gravel, which tend to be found together – every year. That’s more than enough to blanket the entire United Kingdom. The problem lies in the type of sand we are using. Desert sand is largely useless to us. The overwhelming bulk of the sand we harvest goes to make concrete, and for that purpose, desert sand grains are the wrong shape. Eroded by wind rather than water, they are too smooth and rounded to lock together to form stable concrete.

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ask-me-about-my-cats t1_j5qd2xm wrote

Yeah great let's use brick housing in California. That won't kill millions of people.

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LongFluffyDragon t1_j5r3qtx wrote

Mining is far from non-destructive, and you cant farm clay.

Building with bricks is also incredibly stupid in any area that gets hot or has earthquakes. We are going to see a lot of stone and brick buildings being torn down in europe in the next decade due to becoming uninhabitable.

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