Submitted by Falls_stuff t3_10oqq7k in worldnews
Scary-Poptart t1_j6grpk9 wrote
Reply to comment by Logical-Dog-7387 in US to renew efforts to reduce India's oil, military 'dependency' on Russia by Falls_stuff
It needs to be military? Will you return the other aid then? I know Kennedy planned to give military aid, and the US is planning it now.
Logical-Dog-7387 t1_j6gt275 wrote
You really believe India is dependent on Russia for non military aid ? Or do you think India have any problems with humanitarian aid given by US to pakistan or any other country ? It's the military aid that's in question. What ever Kennedy planned didn't happened .good intentions and planning doesn't matter , what you actually does is the thing matters the most. US has always positioned itself with military dictators against India in the past while Russia helped us. US planning aid now is kind of feels like the guy in a van offering you candies
Scary-Poptart t1_j6gttn8 wrote
So, like I said, will you give back the non-military aid since you don't care about it at all? You acted as if America never gave you any aid.
Logical-Dog-7387 t1_j6gvat9 wrote
Yes a million times yes. But me saying give back the aid doesn't force anyone to give it back. And in recent past India never asked for aid. You just send it to improve " civil liberties and human rights " which is kind of like subtle espionage. It has nothing to do with the government. So feel free to ask any NGO's you gave money to return it too. And I acted like US supported India's enemies when ever we really needed help. Which is true. USA stood with our enemies , pressured us to give away our territories , Tried to blackmail us with naval blockades and nuclear strikes , put us on embargos and sanction lists , gave military aids to our enemies, gave aid to NGOs to destabilize our democracy and tried to stop infra projects through NGOs that USA gave aid and now USA want us to abandon a friendly nation that stood with us all these bad times while USA gave aid to our enemies less than 6 months ago? Where should we sign up for that ,massa ?
[deleted] t1_j6gvzuy wrote
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Logical-Dog-7387 t1_j6gyo90 wrote
>Do it then. There's a lot of indians here, push for a return of the aid. But you won't, because you just want to take, like your scam centers.
There is a lot of Indians here ? What kind of argument is that, not even 1% of indians even have a Reddit account. Indian government doesn't take official aid since early 2000s . What ever your country gave they gave it to NGOs of their liking.
>Oh, of course, helping with human rights is a terrible thing, because America bad! Maybe you would feel better if it were cow rights, since those are treated better than women and Muslims in your country?.
Are you saying your human right help by helping contra rebels , or flooding the world with cocaine or toppling governments all over Africa and south america or political assassinations ? Or are you referring to recent human rights endeavours in Syria or Iraq or in Afghanistan. There is only one meaning for Human rights help in USA that's a helpful shield to promote American interest in the region. And you guys aren't even able to solve human rights problem in your own country . Blacks are still getting shot in the streets like dogs. First solve that before you venture out for other problems to solve.
>There were no actual blockades or nuclear strikes, and as you said before, "planning doesn't matter , what you actually does is the thing matters the most".
This is what happens when you are illiterate in history. USAs plan didn't work because USSR thwarted it. USA and UK did send their fleet for naval blockade but a USSR nuclear submarine and their fleet was dispatched to help us. That's the only reason it didn't work. So as you and I both agree US did acted there but failed miserably.
>First of all, don't act like you wouldn't sell out to the cheapest provider. Second of all, Russia has no friendly nations. You are incredibly naive to think Russia views anyone as friends, when even their own people are treated like meat for their overlords.
Lol . How naive you are. Russia do have friends everyone is just deals under the table now. And you guys are the biggest sell outs, do you know why ? Because you are the biggest buyer of purified petroleum product from us, so when ever you are driving a car you are supporting Russia. And about Russians you can repeat what ever your propaganda materials say , but it doesn't really matters to me
[deleted] t1_j6gz2t0 wrote
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Scary-Poptart t1_j6h07t9 wrote
>There is a lot of Indians here ? What kind of argument is that, not even 1% of indians even have a Reddit account. Indian government doesn't take official aid since early 2000s . What ever your country gave they gave it to NGOs of their liking.
First of all, India accepted aid recently for Covid. Second of all, NGO's are good too. Third of all, it's easy for you take the aid then neither appreciate it nor have any intention of giving it back. Either way, America did give aid to India, which seems to be a waste of money.
>There is only one meaning for Human rights help in USA that's a helpful shield to promote American interest in the region. And you guys aren't even able to solve human rights problem in your own country. Blacks are still getting shot in the streets like dogs. First solve that before you venture out for other problems to solve.
Oh please . The anti-American propaganda you consume isn't actually representative of reality.
>This is what happens when you are illiterate in history. USAs plan didn't work because USSR thwarted it. USA and UK did send their fleet for naval blockade but a USSR nuclear submarine and their fleet was dispatched to help us. That's the only reason it didn't work. So as you and I both agree US did acted there but failed miserably.
If the US wanted to nuke you, the USSR wouldn't be able to stop it. Nor was there a serious attempt at a blockade. So, as you said, it didn't happen, and intentions don't matter.
>Lol . How naive you are. Russia do have friends
I guess there's no getting through to someone who is that blind. Russia is sending their own people, barely armed, to die in a pointless war for their dictator, whom they aren't even allowed to criticize, and you think you're their friend? You are nothing but a puppet against America to them. Ironically, the moment America is gone, is the moment Russia has no more use for you, and they start working on taking your lands.
>And you guys are the biggest sell outs, do you know why ? Because you are the biggest buyer of purified petroleum product from us
Not even remotely true from what I'm seeing.
>And about Russians you can repeat what ever your propaganda materials say , but it doesn't really matters to me
Sure, stick your head in the ground and trust the aggressive dictatorship.
Logical-Dog-7387 t1_j6h30o7 wrote
>First of all, India accepted aid recently for Covid. Second of all, NGO's are good too. Third of all, it's easy for you take the aid then neither appreciate it nor have any intention of giving it back. Either way, America did give aid to India, which seems to be a waste of money.
Covid was special case . We did gave shipments of tablets when your president asked. Does that mean USA received aid from us during covid . Why would I force / try to force my government to gave you money when your government spend it on what they like . If it's government to government aid then I am more than happy to try and work for returning it
>Oh please . The anti-American propaganda you consume isn't actually representative of reality.
Oh I am amazed by the fact that you know propaganda doesn't mean ground reality. Yet you were quick to equate everything you heard to truth about Indian and Russian people.
>If the US wanted to nuke you, the USSR wouldn't be able to stop it. Nor was there a serious attempt at a blockade. So, as you said, it didn't happen, and intentions don't matter.
The point here is USA a nuclear powered nation tried to blackmail us then a non-nuclear country into submission. And the attempt was thwarted by Russians. What makes you think your country wouldn't have nuked us if Russia didn't came to our aid ?
>I guess there's no getting through to someone who is that blind. Russia is sending their own people, barely armed, to die in a pointless war for their dictator, whom they aren't even allowed to criticize, and you think you're their friend? You are nothing but a puppet against America to them. Ironically, the moment America is gone, is the moment Russia has no more use for you, and they start working on taking your lands.
We condemn the russian war on Ukraine but not Russia. Why are you angry at the fact that he is a dictator ? It didn't stopped your country from supporting dictators against my country . And FYI we are not puppets to anyone neither USA nor Russia. We look out for our own interests. And I did thought american schools teach geography, Russia and India doesn't have any land or sea border , how are they going to take our land. That comment looked like the boogie man stories people tell kids to make them fall in line.
>Not even remotely true from what I'm seeing.
That's because you are not looking on the right place. American petroleum product export from India in first 8 moths of 2022 is 3.68B. just give a google search and you can find it.
>Sure, stick your head in the ground and trust the aggressive dictatorship.
From your earlier claim you yourself told me propaganda from largely different from ground reality . You had no idea about what russian people thinks of india yet you made a claim. But the surveys i can find online claims otherwise. Now whose sticking their head on the ground. When I don't have definitive proof i will stick to past data , which is Russians helped India while Americans backstabbed or kicked us in the nuts
Scary-Poptart t1_j6h41ut wrote
> We did gave shipments of tablets when your president asked.
Not for free.
>Why would I force / try to force my government to gave you money when your government spend it on what they like . If it's government to government aid then I am more than happy to try and work for returning it
It's about gratitude, which you have none of. In which case, you should return all the aid, go ahead and work on that.
>Oh I am amazed by the fact that you know propaganda doesn't mean ground reality. Yet you were quick to equate everything you heard to truth about Indian and Russian people.
What a non-argument. You were wrong about human rights, America is ranked much higher than India. And my experience with Russia is first-hand. You know nothing.
>The point here is USA a nuclear powered nation tried to blackmail us then a non-nuclear country into submission. And the attempt was thwarted by Russians. What makes you think your country wouldn't have nuked us if Russia didn't came to our aid ?
Nothing happened, so as you said, it doesn't matter. The USSR couldn't stop American nukes anyway.
>We condemn the russian war on Ukraine but not Russia. Why are you angry at the fact that he is a dictator ?
Well unlike you I actually have morals, so I don't like dictators. Still, the point was that no, Russia is not your friend, it is nobody's friend, not even of the russian people.
>That's because you are not looking on the right place. American petroleum product export from India in first 8 moths of 2022 is 3.68B. just give a google search and you can find it.
Then give me a source showing that, as you claim, America is the #1 consumer of Indian "petroleum products".
>India doesn't have any land or sea border , how are they going to take our land.
Same way they have lands in places they don't connect to. But China is more likely to go at it first more directly, and Russia won't choose you over China. America would though, perhaps mistakenly.
>From your earlier claim you yourself told me propaganda from largely different from ground reality . You had no idea about what russian people thinks of india yet you made a claim. But the surveys i can find online claims otherwise. Now whose sticking their head on the ground. When I don't have definitive proof i will stick to past data , which is Russians helped India while Americans backstabbed or kicked us in the nuts
You continue to ignore how Russia treats its own people, their slavic neighbors, and all the agreements they betrayed. There's no arguing with someone who wants to be blind.
Gr33nBubble t1_j6h90kv wrote
Say what you want about the U.S.A. We do have a lot of room for improvement (just like most places) but I think it's easy to make us a scapegoat for a lot of the worlds problems. We also afford our citizens a much better quality of life, with a lot more freedoms than Russia, and I think that's worth something.
I also think we do a much better job of being the "world's police" or whatever you want to call it, than Russia, or China would do. You may disagree with me here, but I think the international order that America has been the leader in creating, post WW2, could have ended up a lot worse. It's a fact that there's been less war, more trade, and more democracies being created, since the U S.A. has been a world leader.
Our government has also made a lot of mistakes in our international conduct, Indian relations probably being one of them. But please don't think that all Americans are evil.
We are one of the largest democracies on the planet, and India is the largest. America struggles with the vestiges of slavery, and institutional racism. And I bet India struggles with the vestiges of it's cast system, if I had to guess, although I admittedly don't know much about that, so please pardon my ignorance.
I think it's better if we try to focus on our similarities, instead the mistakes of the past. IMO India and the U.S.A. should be allies. We are a huge portion of the democratic world together, and I think it's important for us to recognize this, and work together to spread democratic values.
Nobody wants Putin running the world. I mean C'mon. Look at the quality of life for your average Russian citizen. No freedom of speech. No Bill of Rights. The most unbalanced distribution of economic wealth that the world has ever seen, putting the a lot of people in abject poverty. I could go on.
And I think it's obvious that Ukraine is going to come out of this war on the right side of history.
I'm just saying that I think there's a lot of opportunity for India and the U.S.A. to work together moving forward, and I hope that you can also see that most Americans are indeed good people. Just like most Indians.
Logical-Dog-7387 t1_j6ha80n wrote
I don't think America or Americans are evil , it's just America was an unreliable partner in the past . And when it comes to abandoning long term ally in favour of US we do have the reservations. Thats it. I like most Indians condone all invasions. Wether that was done by Russia or others. We are always open to all relationship that benefits my country. But I don't really support a Black and white world. It's all grey. Russia might be the big bad wolf in the eyes of America and europe but thats not the right picture from our side. We condemn Ukraine war the same way we condemn Iraq war but we done condemn Russia or US. I also think it's a great opportunity for both country if we can make it work. We just wants to be like swiss neutral to all.
Gr33nBubble t1_j6hc9lj wrote
Right on man. Yeah I understand having reservations about abandoning a traditional ally, in favor of a country who hasn't been reliable in the past.
I condemn the Iraq war also, for what it's worth.
[Edit] Here's to forging a better alliance between our two countries. I hope my government does a better job of supporting Indian interests and siding with the biggest democracy in the world...better than it has in the past.
Logical-Dog-7387 t1_j6hrx4c wrote
Yeah me too. Hopes my government doesn't fucks up too (which probably they will)
Gr33nBubble t1_j6jjy31 wrote
Lol.
Yeah, it's hard to put our faith in our governments...
Btw, it's always really bothered me when I learn about the U.S. trying to topple democratically elected governments, or becoming allies with military or religious dictatorships, simply because of cold water politics, or regional interests, or whatever. It's extremely hypocritical and makes us look really bad.
I think our main objective ought to be fostering democracies around the world, if we are going to be the 'world leaders' with all the weapons. Otherwise, what's the point of leading the world if you're not making it a better place with more freedoms for everybody.
That's the main reason I support giving weapons to Ukraine. They are making a really good effort to become a democracy, just like India, and the United States.
Cheers mate!
crestnest t1_j6h0666 wrote
To disclose your racism, that person had to write four comments, You complain about Russian racism all over the internet , and be racist toward Indians. Funny how I can't display hypocrisy while you being an American.
Scary-Poptart t1_j6h178g wrote
I have no idea what you're saying, but sounds like generalizing Americans.
Logical-Dog-7387 t1_j6h31rt wrote
Lol
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