>Tens of thousands are about right, in other words about 1%. Which leaves 99% ready to stay and fight.

Remember that Ukraine is a small country (its population is half the size of the UK).

>From what I've heard it takes $3-5k in bribes to leave the country, so at least 20% of people could afford that if they really wanted to

Remember that Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe.

Night where I live. You too.

The man himself u/perpetualhillman has commented on this thread.

Also remember to tag your post NSFW.

Woah. It's you! I saw your username appear on my notifications and stared at it for a few seconds in surprise. I may disagree with some of your life choices but I do enjoy reading your compasses.

You might want to reply to the other person, since he doesn't view you as credible and all that.

By the way, I never said Ukrainians want their country to stop fighting. I'm saying the Ukrainian people may not be as committed to the war as western propaganda may imply.

>And I disagree a bit about Western media bias. It's not a monolith. OAN just did a show on Dugin. There is always a market out there for things that make Ukraine look bad.

There's also Fox news. I was mostly thinking about social media and such when I wrote those comments regarding propaganda.

Well, there's media bias. Since those who were prevented from leaving aren't covered as much due to a combination of western media bias (we don't see or hear them so we don't think about them as much) and also for propaganda purposes (portraying the Ukrainian people as more committed to the war than they really are). u/PerpetualHillman did not give an exact number.

It may not have been millions, I may have been mistaken. But judging based on PerpetualHillman's account of what happened, it must've been in the tens of thousands at the minimum. Also, media generally focuses on those who successfully fled (weren't prevented by the Ukrainian government from leaving, so mostly women and children) rather than those who were prevented (overwhelmingly fighting age men).

I don't think u/PerpetualHillman was expecting to be used as a source as most reddit users don't interact with communities like r/wojackcompass but I thought it was relevant to the conversation.

>And truth be told I've done that a few times knowing there's no way to verify it because my identity is anonymous.

You've done what a few times?

According to himself, he doesn't want his Reddit account to be linked to his real identity because of all of the messed up/controversial things he's admitted to doing in his life. Although he acknowledges that he will most likely be eventually doxxed.

As for my other source, well. I'm still searching but not much luck so far. I think I read that part around a year ago, near the beginning of the war. I'm hoping I didn't get it confused with Russia's mobilization lol, although I'm sure I read of a large number of men who attempted to flee Ukraine somewhere.

Listen. If this guy is a troll and/or attention seeker, he is very committed to the act considering he has made and posted dozens of high effort compasses just like the one I linked, some detailing events he's covered, some detailing events in his personal life, etc.

The "rando" you speak of is a journalist. Granted, while I may not agree with him all the time I still consider him a reliable source.

You didn't even read anything. While the source I linked does not mention the number (I am still retrieving the source and will link it when I find it, I believe it was Wikipedia), if you bothered to scroll down and read the damn thing you'd get half of what you asked for.

This is one of my sources. Credit goes to PerpetualHillman.

>My point that Ukrainians are clearly not protesting and wanting their government to surrender?

??

>I'm just answering your question.

You're not.

>You're the one who moved the discussion in a weird direction.

I didn't. I raised a good point.

>There's nothing stopping people in Ukraine or outside of it. If the refugees are so eager to get back to their homes, why aren't you seeing any pressure for them on Ukraine to surrender? You only see the opposite. Strong patriotism.

Actions speak louder than words. Anyone, even non-Ukranians can claim to be intensely patriotic for Ukraine (same applies to Russia). But it doesn't mean much unless they actually choose to prove it.

>And if you think a 7 year old and her mother not staying at Bucha and leaving means they don't want Ukraine to survive, well, that's just the product of brain worms.

You're also conveniently forgetting the millions of Ukrainian men of fighting age who attempted to flee in the very beginning, around the time Zelensky enacted the general mobilization. According to witness reports from westerners who were in Ukraine, people were literally stopped in their cars by Ukrainian soldiers; the men were dragged out and forced to sign up. Doesn't sound very patriotic to me.

How does this prove your point? Unless you're shifting goalposts?

>LOL. Most of the people who fled were women and children.

And those who attempted to flee?

If they wanted their country's independence to survive that badly they would've stayed and fought.

>Also weird how even abroad they are supporting Ukraine and protesting Russia.

Actions often speak louder than words.

The millions of Ukrainians who fled or attempted to flee would disagree.