I think at some point it will be profitable to have people not going into pension and continue contributing for longer. Also Big Pharma will want to sell longevity to many people instead of a chosen few and hence the interests of super rich might conflict at this point.

You do have a point of course. I suspect longevity will be sold to the rich at first, just like it already is (there is age-fighting technology available to some part already, as well as better medical care than the usual human gets, but it’s not this big a difference yet). It will be a long process for it to be distributed somewhat more evenly, especially if we want the change to be global (many „first world country“ citizens living on welfare are already the super rich globally, I mean they HAVE welfare in the first place).

Not being Christian (Asatru is my way), I still accept the idea of afterlife, even of possible reincarnation. But I would prefer to learn and contribute more before I die, and if I could I would want to continue learning and contributing forever. Isn’t that what Christians are actually promised for good deeds and being believers in Christ, the immortal and happy life of mutual benevolence and love after the arrival of Judgement day? Maybe this very day is not far away now, just in a different, less metaphysical way?

I think you are not an asshole at all, you just seem unhappy and a tad impolite. You probably lead a life in non-Reddit reality where you need to be polite all the time and are fed up. But OP is really not your enemy.

Stay safe. Btw I don’t hate you.

That’s plain wrong. Some clues are already available.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Angela-Kamer-2/publication/341268053_Periodontal_disease_as_a_possible_cause_for_Alzheimer%27s_disease/links/5eda34ee299bf1c67d41bfd4/Periodontal-disease-as-a-possible-cause-for-Alzheimers-disease.pdf

It’s a disease with mutlifactorial causes. There are many diseases out there that don’t have just ONE cause.

A good and pretty common example being cardiovascular conditions which have genetic, lifestyle and traumatic factors among others contributing to their manifestation.

If you want to work on a better definition of a disease like Alzheimer’s, join these guys who are working on the definitions of this disease:

https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/doi/10.7916/xwcq-7092/download

Or try and go into research of its treatment. But bashing OP for their quite knowledgeable approach isn’t polite. And shines bad light on you.

Do you know that pointing out others‘ „flaws in logic“ because their ideas don’t fit your emotional reasoning is kinda impolite?

Also it’s a fallacious approach that has not much to do with logic.

Repeating over and over that ageing is not a disease because it’s time-related doesn’t explain why ageing is „time-related“ in the first place. What is even „time-related“?

Imagine you travel from Earth to Alpha Centauri through space, in a spaceship that moves faster than light speed (just imagine and assume, we are in the realm of pure logic or at the best math here, not physics that we already comprehend).

This causes time to pass differently for you and for someone NOT aboard your spaceship due time dilation. For example your partner, who has stayed on Earth.

Now is your ageing related to YOUR timeline or to that of your partner who is not aboard your spaceship?…

Let’s see how you solve this logical problem. 😁

And now add your emotions back in. Do you still want ageing not to be seen as disease and its treatment not funded if you travel to Alpha Centauri and back while your sweetheart stays on Earth?…

Very true. The sad thing is that they often try to force others to give up hope and creativity too (luckily here my friends in real life don’t make this mistake). The modern approach to society propagated by mainstream solidifies this and helps the victims to stay victims while they think they are winning… Thank you 🙏

I have seen you post here twice, so I decided the topic must be important for you (hence making you one of those with a chance of using their inferior meat machines in their skulls). Then I tried to feel some pity for you, was somewhat successful and looked into your other posts.

Have seen you like Warhammer 40k. Is it a source of inspiration for your imagination?

If yes, I suggest “Gaunt’s Ghosts” series if you haven’t read it already. It could give you back some hope in humanity and help you overcome your depression and anger issues.

The philosophy of “cringe” is what allows them to brainwash you. But since you spend your time cringing, you probably don’t have time to realise it. Here some popular science that can help you get rid of your fears:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-scientific-underpinnings-and-impacts-of-shame/

My friends are allowed to disagree with me and know how I think of them and their ideas, I am very into open discussion.

Doesn’t seem that you give your friends the same chance. Try reading up on the philosophy of shame, on discourse and on the way those in power keep you leashed. Michel Foucault is a philosopher I would advise you to read but you are probably still in high school (“cringe” being kid speak of today) so it might be a bit too difficult. But here is an easy start:

https://thephilosophicalsalon.com/shaming-culture-as-neoliberal-governmentality/

I don’t hate you, just in case you wonder. If I cared about you personally and had more emotions (and f^cks) to spare, I would feel pity, I guess. But I don’t want other young people to be influenced by your destructive way of thought and it’s for them that I post this information.

Have a good day, little one.

P.S. Praise the Omnissiah.

Thank you! Yes, forgetting is important for us even to learn properly! Very good argument.

Thank you! Your explanation helps. Despite psychology being my trade, I have sadly close to no inborn “natural” empathy. What you said makes a lot of sense.

I like your reasoning here!

I tried arguing about the declaration of aging as a disease with my private circle. EVERY single person said they are against immortality and EVERY single one said the reason for that was that „life would become boring at some point when one is immortal“.

How do people even know that? None of them has tried it out.

I am very sure that I will have possibilities to learn new abilities and do new research forever if I had the chance. The universe is so big and fascinating…

Yet even my close friends, very rebellious and humanist people I hand-picked personally, making sure no feudalist or regressionist mindset would be allowed around me, would vote against declaring death and ageing as disease. No matter if they harm OTHERS, like you and me, by that.

Humans are always a risk. They interact socially and have their own intentions. Robots haven’t had intentions so far.

We will see if this changes with more powerful AI into which we will read intentions (or which might even have them emerge within its network).

You make me think too - otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered. It’s all good. We have a chance here to spread the word, to inspire discussion. Thank you 🙏

That’s why I am talking to you - I do think we are actually… on the same side? 😁 I do try to discuss. I hope you see that.

Also agree here.

Here I agree with you.

What I see in you is that you are a good person. This is not in question. This is actually the very reason why I am trying to convince someone like you - someone talented with words and with a strong inner moral code, who could use their voice to reach the masses.

Where I see the danger is that the very ones whom you see as „evil“ can - and already do - brainwash talents like you to step in on THEIR cause. That’s why I am contradicting you so vehemently.

While I see reason in your answers, there is a long way to go to ensure that this reasoning also gets heard properly. For this, we need to not appeal to fear but to morals (=> your argument about ensuring that developers and owners should be ethical thinkers is very good here). It would be easier to reach truth by approximation, deploying AGI to multiple people and seeing the moral reasoning evolve naturally. Concentration of power is too dangerous imo.

Hacking is now already done by „soft“ approach mostly, that’s why I mentioned it. Phishing is much easier and requires less resources than brute force today. Just lead them on, promise them some wireheading, and they go scanning the QR codes…

Hacking the software IS much easier than hacking the hardware. Hardware needs to be accessed physically; to hack software you just need to access the weakest component - the HUMAN user.

A central all-powerful AGI/ASI will be as hackable as weak personal AI, if not more. Because there will be more motivation to hack it in the first place.

The reason we are not all nuked to death yet is because those who own nukes know that their OWN nuking would make life worse for THEMSELVES. Not only because of the „chess game remis“ we are told about again and again.

Absolutely agree. Thank you for the great link!

Yes. I suggest either that, or that we allow AGI to learn ethics from all the information available to humanity plus reasoning.

Then the statement is correct.

The problem I see here is that a single human or a small group of humans cannot know right from wrong (unless she/he is Jesus Christ maybe - and I am not Christian, I just see that long-dead guy as a pretty good person) perfectly.

This is an interesting and novel idea. I would support that.

The developers will not be the owners tho…

This is a typical „appeal to fear“ fallacy.

Very off-mark. extremely so.

Your reasoning is political and not philosophical or based on computational science. Sorry but verbosity and eloquence (Chapeau! You do have talent) doesn’t make one right.

Wait with agreeing with her/him please. The „central AI“ is the worst possible scenario as our stories are already telling us. It is the way to the ultimate, unchangeable rule of the 1%.