EffectiveWar

EffectiveWar t1_j0ontl8 wrote

I feel like I just enjoyed a five page poem but even so, i'm still a pessimist in regards to this lonely existential plight people seem to think we have. We are no different to any of the other creatures in my view, its just our ability to reason and manipulate the world has been abstracted out to the extreme until we think ourselves seperate but we really aren't. We have no more idea about what is going on than birds and the trees do, not really. It might be worth revisting when we can shape time and space and create worlds though.

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EffectiveWar t1_iuz9lw8 wrote

Cogito ergo sum doesn't mean the certainty of what one is. It just means that whatever is happening, is happening now. Having the thought I think, therefore I am, is a way of repeatedly reaffirming the occurence of real time events, by using a real time event. Not what, who, where or why you are with any certainty.

The sun will rise tomorrow has been a figure of speech for decades.

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EffectiveWar t1_iuz1c5d wrote

Many people who consider themselves atheist are actually nontheist. There is only one type of atheist, those who claim there are no gods, as this cannot be proven it constitutes a belief. Everyone else is nontheist and rejects the question of the existence of deities entirely. An absence of belief is nothing, it isn't non-belief, hence nontheism, not atheism because you can't non-believe something, only believe that it isn't true, which is still belief.

I'm not sure how you can repeatedly state that its possible to not believe anything, when you don't even know for certain if you are really alive at this moment and not some brain in a jar. Or a simulation of yourself in a virtual environment. I might be a philosophical zombie for all you know. You have no idea if the sun will rise tomorrow, or the true speed of light because it depends on the sensitivity of the instrument doing the measuring. Everything is belief, or prediction or estimation. All of it.

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EffectiveWar t1_iuyowtc wrote

Not sure how many ways to say this, you cannot operate without belief, not now and not ever. The absolute best we can do is improve our beliefs so that they match reality as closely as possible.

The fact that belief contains the word lie, has no significance. Its etymology is related to a mental acceptance of something as true, along with religious connotations of faith.

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EffectiveWar t1_iuyi4zv wrote

Would love a TDLR on these articles tbh, no disrespect to the author. The beauty of philosophy is the near infinite discussional depth to almost any statement and I haven't got time to read 6k words, consider it intellectually and then form a comment. Give us the short version.

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EffectiveWar t1_iuxqe3f wrote

Beliefs aren't really filters, if by filters you mean something that obstructs. True reality, or the full picture as you say, is already blocked to us for obvious reasons, such as the eye example I gave you earlier. For us to see true reality, or be free from all filters or beliefs as you said, we would have to be Laplace's demon and such a being doesn't exist.

The point you seem to be making is that people stick to outdated, unuseful, unreliable or inaccurate beliefs and this causes them to have a worse understanding of the full picture. But this is not a fault of belief or having them, beliefs are compulsory and useful, its a fault of poor reasoning causing rejection of new information. People who stick to inefficient beliefs when new ones are being shown to be better, are behaving irrationally because their reasoning is poor and preventing them from adopting better beliefs.

We don't solve this by getting rid of beliefs and we can't anyway. Not ever, because we don't have perfect information about all things, all of the time and therefore every action we take is always founded on some belief or another.

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EffectiveWar t1_iux3b8j wrote

We know our senses are limited (we see only spectrums of light), and flawed (some people see better than others) and unreliable (sight alone is not comprehension of what was seen).

If the true nature of reality is hidden then, at least for vision, one must necessarily operate on beliefs and not absolute facts to make progress, it is impossible not to unless all the parameters are known (perfect sight of all things all of the time), which they aren't and likely never will be.

Some beliefs do become filters, but that is a failure of proper reasoning (the rejection of new beliefs provided by new information) and does not affect the value of having beliefs at all. They are compulsory and useful.

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EffectiveWar t1_iuww3yr wrote

That was well-written and covered a range of things but I really didn't get much out of it.

Subjective meaning is unique to the individual and yes, many find it within myth and religious texts and yes, we need to embrace subjectivity as well as objectivity and truth to have happier, more meaningful lives.

But we have known since the scientific revolution and the enlightment that seperation of church and state is a good thing. The subjective mind will find meaning in a brick shit house and will make itself happy, its designed that way, but we have suffered for generations at the hands of unfounded subjective belief, especially religious belief, overruling reason and science. Trying to salvage things like religious texts for any sort of factual truth that can be relevant and practical in the present is a dry well. If someone doesn't understand love thy neighbour by now then they are doing it out of wilful ignorance or malice. The bible has been squeezed for every ounce of truth for centuries and it should take its place as a subjective tool for personal insight, not a guideline for modern society or governmental policy.

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