Mmmm. I also thought that his beliefs about women may have something to do with losing his child as a younger man, back when he was with a woman. If his sexuality was repressed while he was with her (now that I think about it, while he mentions that his partner was good to him, he only says that she loved him, not the other way around), once he’d left her, it must’ve occurred to him that he could be with whoever he wanted. And he wanted men like David.

I agree, he definitely succeeded on that front.

David as a character is so… stagnant, which is a trait I normally wouldn’t judge him for were it not for his attitude towards Giovanni. You’ve nailed his general character arc (lol)— like, literally ALL he does is flop around, ignoring what needs to be done until the thing gets done for him. In addition, while I do feel some sympathy for his struggles with his sexuality, the way he goes about addressing those struggles… is very deficient, to say the least. Unlike him, Giovanni, for all his flaws, knows when to act (something I admire).

You’ve convinced me. While I don’t approve of the content of his comments, now that I understand WHY he said them a little better, I think I can give him more of the benefit of a doubt. If my partner more or less told me that he prefers to be with someone else, despite the very intimate nature of our intimate relationship, I would also be pissed… and probably would not speak very well of them.

Ahh, that’s a thought that never occurred to me before. Contextually, that does make sense… I’m pretty sure he makes the misogynistic comments I was complaining about in the middle of a conversation about Hella. I suppose he was criticizing David’s willingness to marry her, despite also being with him?

Mmhmm. I know. I just found this particular trait especially unlikable. 🤷‍♀️

Did I ever say otherwise? I’m literally just saying that I can dislike characters if I want to, regardless of whether I’m invested in them or not.

Certainly. The book is very well written, and I do appreciate it for all the reasons you stated. However, while most of the characters would not be as interesting as they are without their flaws, certain flaws are objectively distasteful, even if they are well-executed. That’s what I was aiming to express in my original post.

I’m sorry you feel that way, but as a woman, I’m perfectly within the right to dislike characters who insult my gender. It’s not that I think people don’t have a mix of good and bad qualities— it’s that this bad quality in particular was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. To be sure, Giovanni has good qualities (he’s eloquent, satirical, intelligent, a good read of people, etc), but his bad ones (he’s volatile, manipulative, violent, misogynistic, etc) don’t do him any favors.

Also LOL at the tribalism/polarization of society bit. It’s not that deep. People can have opinions.