Mr Robot. Devs. The Outsider. Outer Range. The OA.

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>Theists, for example, derive objective purpose and meaning from God's having created them for intended purposes (namely to know God and enjoy him forever).

We weren't talking about "objective purpose," we were talking about finding meaning. And I'd argue you're not finding purpose, you're just outsourcing the job of finding purpose to god.

>As you said earlier, if you could have a different outcome for the universe (+stipulations) you would.

I think you might be mixing me up with someone else you're replying to.

EDIT: Ah, sorry, I reread things and found what you were referring to. That was not a matter of if I could I would, it was stated more so that if it had better explanatory power, I would be compelled to look into it. I'm still not going to choose fantasy over reality just because it sounds nice.

>Why would infinite oblivion be preferable to a continued search at minimum?

Infinite oblivion, as you put it, isn't preferable. There are a thousand sci-fi / fantasy worlds that I've read that would be wonderful to live in. But reality is reality. Can't change that.

And as you apparently have also, I've done quite a bit of searching..

>To this point: "Mattering is not something that should or ever could go on for all perpetuity." >Why not?

Things change. Mattering changes. The people experiencing the thing and deciding that it matters change. None of this is possible in the infinite. I went over this.

>Are you certain there are no other worldviews that satisfy these stipulations? If not, why settle on naturalism?

Well, for one thing, I don't find naturalism unsatisfying. That should be self-evident by now.

I'm certainly convinced that all theistic (and by extention deistic) religions are man-made and have nothing to offer but wish fulfillment (as I previously eluded to), among other ills.

Buddhism I think does have a lot to say about the human experience, but I don't find any of that in conflict or even necessarily outside the bounds of naturalism. (Many atheists would agree, in my experience.) The Tao and sayings of Confucius also have a good bit of wisdom to them as well. Have you given those options a fair look..?

>>It will matter to those who accomplish great things. > >They will not exist when the universe is dead.

Of course not, things only "matter" within the time frame that they exist and to the sentient beings who simultaneously exist to appreciate them. Mattering is not something that should or ever could go on for all perpetuity.

>>By definition, all accomplishment is diminished to zero, integrated over infinity. > >If there were other fates for the universe that didn't result this way, would you be interested in avoiding this fate?

If they held the explanatory power of naturalism and weren't self-evidently untrue and based on wish fulfillment, I suppose I would.

>To be clear, I think naturalists should find their worldview's implications horrifying and infinitely empty in the worst way. Not boring.

Well, I've already explained how we find it freeing and how it enables us to lead a better life, which you previously accepted. I've also explained why I find the infinite to render all meaning null and void. Meaning is only possible within the confines of the finite. I don't see how it could be otherwise..

It will matter to those who accomplish great things. Heck, we accomplish great things every day. You can say that you value this life because it sets you on a trajectory for the afterlife, but that's not really the same thing. You can put in the minimum effort or a maximal effort, and the result is the same. Mother Teresa doesn't get a special place or a particularly shiny set of wings or anything.

What is there to accomplish in the infinite? By definition, all accomplishment is diminished to zero, integrated over infinity.

And again, naturalism just is. We're not "chosing to sit with" naturalism. I guess you're right that what you're proposing is not exactly Pascal's Wager. It's more like you're saying that naturalism is just so boring, why don't we look into other alternatives? Not exactly compelling. We're "content" with naturalism because it answers everything. Everything that can be answered, that is. The rest we get to answer for ourselves, which circles back around to that sense of freedom that the finite gives, which the infinite will always find lacking..

Naturalism is just what is. It doesn't have to offer anything. Except truth, assuming one values that.

I fail to see how belief in an infinite afterlife doesn't completely diminish this finite life. It makes this life an annoying gate keeping exercise to get on to the real thing. So much so that all religions need to incorporate rules against suicide to prevent their adherents from just checking out prematurely to get on with it. And, as you say, your gains here in this world are even more utterly worthless and non-transferable to the afterlife.

On the other hand, the finite lifespan of the universe has the same bolstering effect as the finite lifespan of a human, just writ large. The bounded time frame adds a sense of urgency to seeing what we can accomplish, both individually and collectively as a species..

Yeah, this is still just Pascal's Wager.

Also, P1 is not true because knowing your have a finite lifespan is often stated as liberating among atheist circles, and results in greater empathy and a stronger desire to make a positive mark on the world, or at the very least leave it a better place than we found it for future generations..

Vr.5. Had so much potential..

Give it until episode 5. I was still holding back and skeptical as well. Enjoying it ok, but still not 100% sold. But then every episode since (5 thru 8, so far, of 10 total planned) has been really impressive..

Let the Right One In is actually kind of amazing. Doesn't follow the novel / movies, but does its own thing. Some really heart wrenching stuff, highly recommend it..

The Amazon version of The Tick was just hitting its stride in season 2 when it was canceled. Drastically underappreciated..

They really did the ensemble cast thing so well, pairing them off in different combos, making amazing call backs to one off characters from previous seasons, pacing each season out nicely. This definitely fits the OP's bill..

I don't what this is, but.. Grogu. So, ok..

The Leftovers. I actually watched through the first two seasons, hoping it would get better, because every damn person I know raved about that show, but no, I just got more and more awful with each episode. I don't get the appeal and never will..

You only have to live near one for a little while to figure that one out. It ain't hard..

Nice. I can confirm "-ville" is bizarrely popular in TN, having moved there recently. Though pronounced "vul" not "vil" more often than not..

Past experience would say if it hasn't happened by now, it ain't happening. - sympathetic The OA fan