Maybe calling out isn’t the right word here, because you’re right, there’s no one TO call out. We can talk about whether or not some people here feel called out, but that is another story.

You are, of course, also right about fictional characters or a fictional story itself not being moral. Morality is tied to actions, choices, decisions. It therefore doesn’t make sense to judge fictional characters at all, we can only analyze their behavior or the imagery underlying it.

While you are the one bringing up morality here, not me (I merely suggested that sa’s popularity in media these days - like many people in these comments confirm! - makes my spine freeze), it’s still a relevant discussion to have.

In another comment you mentioned the word “evil.” Who said anything about evil? Immorally doesn’t equate evil, or a whole lot of people would have to be evil in the real world.

We’ve come closer to why morality still is questionable when sa is being turned into a romantic trope or dramatic plot device in another comment you made:

>Accountability for what? The sexual assault that didn’t happen? The age gap that doesn’t exist? You haven’t explained what’s inherently wrong with writing a story that contains SA. I don’t see a problem. A story is something the author imagined, and wants to share with the world. If that story includes rape, then so be it.

Like I said, only actions can be moral. Writing, publishing, marketing, selling are all actions made by real people. I also mentioned in my edit of the post my not minding SA in media if it’s handled responsibly. So for example the assaulter could face actual consequences for their actions, whether that be them going to jail, getting killed (historical or fantasy) or simply left by their partner who was the victim. Instead it’s become a plot device that in the worst case is romanticized (the age gap with the younger one being a child is the common choice here) and in the best case thrown into the story casually, without preparation and often without the severity it deserves. All the while viewers/readers continue to watch and celebrate such content. The writers know this of course, which is how they’re the ones making money.

If you still “don’t see the problem”, the most important part you’re not quite right about is this:

>Everything you’re mentioning is fictional. Nobody was sexually assaulted, because none of the characters exist.

Why, do you think, does a whole group of people (that might be larger than you realize) have to look up trigger warnings about SA at all? Why are there whole sides dedicated to this?

I have a feeling bringing up statistics isn’t going to do anything, but we know them all by now. 1 in 6/7. The story doesn’t contain real SA of course, but real life does. So does it contain impressionable young people who consume media in vast quantities, binge watching shows sometimes in one day. It also contains assaulters, r..ists and in some cases people who have the definition of SA wrong. Especially the latter is dangerous, because I’m sure the coworker I’ve mentioned earlier (and many others like this) sees even less of a problem with a child being with a grown person. This trope being acknowledged within a romance and not addressed as a problem can thereby leave small reminders in certain people, that their behavior is ok. Not everyone has the mental capacity, emotional intelligence or even the willingness to critically examine a character’s choice. They just consume and enjoy.

While I was growing up, another trope was pretty popular in basically all genres of film and TV. The “Keep fighting even after she says no” trope. A lot of men especially had that idea down to a T. My attacker included. He also didn’t stop after my no. Or the tenth. Or the 20th.

I like many others don’t look for trigger warnings because we slightly enjoy it less. We don’t even look for them because we think about morality in any way. We look for them to protect our brains and bodies from trauma wounds being opened.

And while I can feel the “but this is your trauma not mine” coming, I’ll lastly say this: Morality at the end of the day can be analyzed to death. Whole philosophies have been developed around the thing. But I’ve never preached anything here. I’ve never said you’re immoral for watching or reading these stories. Morality and ethics for me is personal. Do I personally want to condone harmful rhetoric taking place and giving my money and thereby support for writers who realize that? No. Do I wish others would see that, too? Yes of course. How couldn’t I, after what happened to me. But I don’t control others. And I don’t control you. So at the end of the day it’s about the question:

What can I sleep with at night?

Thanks for making my point for me.

I clearly said it’s the age gap I have the problem with (=inherent lack of consent), which is in fact not only “condoned” in western modern day societies, but to some degrees encouraged. Not least through arguments and deflection like yours. Just last week a 29m coworker told me about him hooking up with a 16 yo like that’s a normal thing to do.

So I don’t “forbid myself” from watching a show, I just don’t want to watch it. Maybe look up the word bigotry again, because wanting to avoid triggers and wanting to actually enjoy content in one’s personal time isn’t it. (For similar reasons I also don’t consume anything within the horror genre. Is that bigoted, too, when being jumpscared just isn’t my idea of fun?)

Then the simple minded insult. Ironic. Fiction is written by real people. Who can take accountability. Who make money off of said content. Now you can argue there’s a disconnect there, but I don’t see it that way. And many other people don’t either. Reminds me of folks who say “We need to separate the art from the artist.” No we don’t.

Lastly, the handmaid’s tale has many problems, but factually not that specific one you mentioned. Not going into detail here, as it would derail the discussion.

I can’t tell if you’re trying to make a joke or using sarcasm to insult me.

Ok sexaholics anonymous had me chuckling, ngl 😄

Guess what the book from 2000 was… 🙃

>And dont make me talk about those age gaps...

Riiight?? Currently refusing to watch House of Dragon for similar reasons. 🙃

But yes and that’s the most infuriating part! One book was so graphic it made me flinch and it has 5 stars on Amazon and is a NY times bestseller. To be reminded how celebrated it is in society is…. 🥶

(Edit: To the Downvoters of this comment I only say examine yourself. Why does someone calling out SA warrant a dislike? Do you feel attacked somehow? If not, what is it?)

Thank you for these! Fantasy is actually my favorite genre in theory, but the best ones are often so long that they don’t make the best starter novels. Meaning fantasy romance will come in handy, so thanks! ☺️

cries in impulsiveness

I wouldn’t be able to pick it up again either. Feel you 100% 😪

Thank you! 🙏🏻 I’ll check them out 🥰

I’ve tried to avoid dark romance so far for this reason, but thank you for the reminder. 🥰

With history novels this makes sense, I just get easily upset over the fact that some authors, while adding sa scenes, still manage to do so in a respectful way (ie not being too explicit or treating the subject with the seriousness it deserves), while other don’t. It’s clearly possible, so why do you feel the need to traumatize your readers? 🙃 (Sorry, ranting here lol)

I guess no impulse purchases whatever the case. 🥲

This is actually super helpful, thank you! One of the two books was from 2000 and the other one had a millionaire boss in it, so that makes a lot of sense now. 😅