roobinsteen

roobinsteen t1_jdcxgm7 wrote

I hear you, the costs for major projects like kitchens and bathrooms are surprising to many homeowners. It's less surprising once you realize how complex these projects are, especially in remodel situations, as well as the staggering cost of the materials involved. Contractors aren't getting rich off of these, generally.

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roobinsteen t1_jdcwn9m wrote

>Part of the complexity though is bringing up the plumbing stack from the second to third floor as there is currently none

Are you sure? Typically the vent stack goes straight out the roof. The bathroom could drain into that. The real question though, is are you going to be able to achieve the slope required for drainage if where you want the bathroom to be is not close to where the existing vent is. You may have to live with a boxed out soffit in the ceiling below the bathroom to accommodate the drains.

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roobinsteen t1_j2b80i6 wrote

>An outlet was not designed to be supplied by a stranded wire

That's what you said, and that's just a factually incorrect statement, which is what I was responding to. It is perfectly safe, fairly common, and UL approved to wire an outlet or switch with stranded wire using the appropriate terminals.

I agree with you that OP's little invention would obviously not be a UL listed device, but again, you said that under no circumstances can stranded wire feed an outlet, which is wrong. Now....despite OP having created something that wouldn't be UL acceptable...it's likely not unsafe as long as they did a good job making the mechanical connections. I myself have a "homemade" extension cord feeding a double duplex outlet box. Made it using a 12awg extension cord and a foursquare Handybox. Is that UL listed? No, but I have beat the ever loving shit out of it on jobsites for a long time and it's fine. Many tradespeople have similar homemade extension cord+boxes and beat the shit out them as well.

My overall point is this is almost certainly not an unsafe device to use, but if I were OP i wouldn't have posted it online to show off, because of the obvious and predictable way in which people would freak out about it.

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roobinsteen t1_j29ewnm wrote

>An outlet was not designed to be supplied by a stranded wire

This is just factually incorrect. Outlets are 100% UL listed for use with both stranded and solid wire, with the only exception being the push/backstab terminals, which must be solid wire. This isn't a matter of opinion. Have a look at this product spec doc from LEVITON:

https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/L-300_B_StraightBladeDevices_2015_Q2j.pdf

all of their receptacles are listed for use with stranded wire in both side and back wiring applications (to be clear, back wiring is using the clamps under the terminals, not back stabbing).

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roobinsteen t1_j25esvw wrote

Fair enough, I defer to you. Oddly though, electricians I know (small residential contractor here) have told me the exact opposite--they often use stranded in conduit because it's easier to pull. Either way, as I'm sure you know, stranded is acceptable to use on receptacles in most cases. OP used the backwire terminal clamps, which is OK for stranded.

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roobinsteen t1_j25bdeq wrote

You are incorrect. Stranded wire is absolutely fine to use with receptacles. The majority of wire run through conduit (think commercial electrical applications) is all stranded, not solid. The only issue is putting stranded and solid under the same terminal (such as a backwire plate, which can accept two conductors), but that isn't happening here.

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roobinsteen t1_iy90mo2 wrote

Technically neutrals are required in every switchbox now, but if I were in your position I would just do it as described, creating a switch loop. The only reason the requirement for neutrals was codified was so that smart switches would be able to be installed everywhere (smart switches typically require neutrals). It's not for safety, that's the only reason. I don't imagine you or anyone will install a smart switch for you garbage disposal unit.

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roobinsteen t1_iy8zt41 wrote

Whoever says they must be on separate circuits is wrong (see my answer above). Here's all that's required: Dishwasher cannot share circuit with any countertop circuits (aka SABCs), and must be a 20A if sharing with a disposal (this point is not said explicitly, but is implicit via general guidelines about sizing circuits for the amperage required by the appliances using them). Relevant NEC article is 210.52

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roobinsteen t1_iy8y13a wrote

> https://homeefficiencyguide.com/should-dishwasher-be-on-its-own-circuit/

There is a LOT of nonsense in that article. I do not think it was written by anyone who knows about typical residential wiring or the NEC. It is absolutely not correct that a dishwasher must be on it's own circuit. It is common and completely code acceptable for a dishwasher to share a 20A circuit with a garbage disposal. The only thing to abide by in terms of code is that the circuit serving the dishwasher must not be on one of the countertop circuits (also known as Small Appliance Branch Circuits/SABCs). The relevant portion of the NEC code is 210.52.

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roobinsteen t1_iy5j1i4 wrote

Must be a gas dryer, because electric dryers use 240V outlets--there's no way it could be shared with 120V lights and outlets. Either way, there's just way too much on a single circuit. Those countertop convection ovens are using like 10-12 amps I imagine, so you really can't use that at the same time as anything else on the same circuit besides lights, etc.

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roobinsteen t1_iy4tr1f wrote

You have a single breaker that serves a fridge, microwave oven, a convection oven (I assume it's a gas oven, so the electric is just for igniter/display), and some lights? That's a whole lot for a single breaker. Even just a fridge and a microwave together are nearing the threshold for a 15A circuit. I also assume the dryer is a GAS dryer, right?

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