theo_radical
theo_radical t1_ivcpccm wrote
Reply to comment by SlowJoeCrow44 in Michael Shermer argues that science can determine many of our moral values. Morality is aimed at protecting certain human desires, like avoidance of harm (e.g. torture, slavery). Science helps us determine what these desires are and how to best achieve them. by Ma3Ke4Li3
I didn't say pain in others does not compel me to act. I said the mere description of pain in others does not compel me to act. I am only compelled to act when I decide that I should. Whether that is to placate the uncomfortable feeling of watching someone suffer or simply because I believe it is right, nothing intrinsic to the description itself prescribes a course of action.
theo_radical t1_ivboyte wrote
Reply to comment by SlowJoeCrow44 in Michael Shermer argues that science can determine many of our moral values. Morality is aimed at protecting certain human desires, like avoidance of harm (e.g. torture, slavery). Science helps us determine what these desires are and how to best achieve them. by Ma3Ke4Li3
Your (descriptive) pain does nothing to spur action in me. Of course, my own pain spurs my own action, but I can find no prescriptive reason it should. In fact, the compelling reason to act on my own pain is involuntary. Morality is a question of who we are/how we act precisely when we are given a choice.
theo_radical t1_ivbjrx1 wrote
Reply to comment by SlowJoeCrow44 in Michael Shermer argues that science can determine many of our moral values. Morality is aimed at protecting certain human desires, like avoidance of harm (e.g. torture, slavery). Science helps us determine what these desires are and how to best achieve them. by Ma3Ke4Li3
> Science cannot provide justification for the value clause". Why is this necessary? Isn't the justification simply that we want a better world as opposed from a worse one?
No. That is not the justification. That introduces the concept of "better" before it has been agreed upon.
The justification needs to explain how science, which provides a descriptive explanation of how morality evolved in human beings, entails a prescriptive statement of how humans ought to be. Morality is not simple stating truths, it's imperative. Something must appeal to action.
theo_radical t1_ivbium9 wrote
Reply to Michael Shermer argues that science can determine many of our moral values. Morality is aimed at protecting certain human desires, like avoidance of harm (e.g. torture, slavery). Science helps us determine what these desires are and how to best achieve them. by Ma3Ke4Li3
Is/ought is relevant because, sure, morality as described as a human phenomenon aims at protecting certain evolved desires, but science can't prescribe morality. It can't tell us whether or not we should have those desires.
theo_radical t1_ivcuj1z wrote
Reply to comment by SlowJoeCrow44 in Michael Shermer argues that science can determine many of our moral values. Morality is aimed at protecting certain human desires, like avoidance of harm (e.g. torture, slavery). Science helps us determine what these desires are and how to best achieve them. by Ma3Ke4Li3
I'm willing to accept that descriptive statements may be necessary in deciding moral action if you're willing to admit that descriptive statements are not sufficient for deciding moral action. I'm not even sure they are necessary but it's also secondary to the primary point of contention.