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HipHopGrandpa t1_iqql4me wrote

Reply to comment by tree_with_hands in My mother's ~33 year old Whirlpool dryer. Still works amazing! by vocke

So it’s better to throw away a working machine and buy a new one that will break in under 10 years? I see your point, but when it comes to big appliances and old cars, sometimes “environmentally friendly” is more nuanced, when those new items have to be built to feed the consumer. That requires resources and energy and creates much waste too.

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SweetAlyssumm t1_iqqru8y wrote

It rarely makes sense to throw away a working appliance to save something on power. Environmentally it is a negative. My dryer is 21 years old (similar model) and I'm not going to replace it to save 10 bucks a month on power. Of course my power is cheaper in the US than in Europe.

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skarn86 t1_irdvs9i wrote

It is absolutely not a negative, environmentally of financially if you bother to do a little math.

10 bucks a month is 120 a year and it very quickly adds up to the cost of a new dryer.

About environment, it's tricky to find data on te costs of building a new dryer. But just look at the CO2 footprint of the EU. It's been dropping for decades, and it's not because people stopped using appliances. Simply the efficiency of new appliances has outpaced the impact of producing them.

And all that while Eastern Europe has been growing massively after the fall of the USSR.

Energy efficiency matters a lot. Just try and look into it a little.

And yes, the carbon footprint of the EU has been dropping even after you factor in how much production happens in China.

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SweetAlyssumm t1_irezb24 wrote

Thanks for these thoughts. It's hard to measure environmental impact. But aggregate numbers say nothing about my individual dryer. Adding the risk that I will buy a dryer that will not last as long as my current one. There are many reasons the footprint is reduced in Europe that have nothing to do with home appliances. Industry/transport are the big numbers. And there are costs for putting appliances in landfills. The delta between my dryer and a new one might be rather small. Just because something is an improvement does not mean it's a big improvement. A new dryer in the US comparable to what I have is about $900. I don't think 8 years is quickly!

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FloppyTomatoes t1_iqrny20 wrote

If you take the difference above of 2.5 kWh per run, and the average price of electricity now being well over 40c per kWh, you are looking at paying over €1.20 per run extra on the older machine. You would easily cover the cost within a few years.

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throwawayhyperbeam t1_iqrpyhe wrote

How do you know it will break in 10 years? I’ll bet you anything some of these dryers that OP had broke within 10 years.

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LeamNoran t1_iqs1ytf wrote

Planned obsolescence. Most modern US appliances fail in the first few years fairly consistently.

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throwawayhyperbeam t1_iqs9f8e wrote

And your contention is that this did not exist back then?

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klein432 t1_iqsemoy wrote

The repair parts for the old machines are way cheaper and easier to repair and diagnose. Modern appliances are very difficult to fix.

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Carvemynameinstone t1_iqsm00i wrote

While that is true, you're also experiencing survivorship bias, only the ones that were built well keep on trucking for that long.

And the repair stuff, yeah mechanical switches are way easier to repair compared to something that's a mini-computer.

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klein432 t1_iqt34g6 wrote

How do you figure? Most things break down eventually and need repair. Older appliances were much more repairable. I have had lots of success repairing older, simpler appliances that did break and need repair.

And contrast that with some horror stories about newer appliances that are near impossible/cost prohibitive to repair. There is a clear winner for reliability and longevity. As long as you are content with older feature sets and technology, its a clear winner. I have had many appliance people tell me this as well.

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Carvemynameinstone t1_iqv2e6t wrote

Isn't that what I said though? Mechanical based appliances are easier to fix.

Survivorship bias means that you have the ones left that still work, a ton of the older appliances are broken which you don't see anymore.

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klein432 t1_iqwfee9 wrote

If anything, the survivorship bias is in the OPPOSITE direction. People are dumping old appliances for some new shiny hotness, only to find out that it failed 4 years later and the repair will cost over half of a new machine.

Historically, appliances WERE repairable. Cars were repairable. That is the bias. The bias is for appliances that have failed and been repaired and still work in spite of a previous minor malfunction. And now, homeowners are all surprised pikachu when then new one doesnt last, and costs a fortune to try and repair or replace.

In my experience, old appliances are disposed of not because of they failed, but because people didnt want them anymore. I do home remodeling and I have pitched so many working appliances because the homeowners didnt like the way they looked, or wanted some programmable function. They worked fine. In fact , I try to make sure they find a new home because pitching old working appliances kills me inside.

I had an avocado green dryer once. I bought used for $50. It was probably 20 years old then. I used it for another 20, and sold it for the same $50 when I couldnt take it with me. Looked like shit. Ran great. I spent $35 on a new belt and rollers when they died. Took me 2 hours to fix. I have thrown out dryers in way better condition because the homeowner didnt want them. Not because of any functional problem.

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LeamNoran t1_iqzkhtf wrote

When is your then?

Have your ever read about appliances ever? Using old appliances that still work here checking in. Not upgrading because everyone I know that has, theirs has died. Some friends can solder their stove back together. Had an old washing machine engineer that had to work at Home Depot because hail capitalism tell me to buy an admiral washing machine and dryer because they were the last of a working generation of functionality.

New ovens die in less than a year. Rental house with a dishwasher a few months old dies. Repair tech saying “keep this old machine because it works.” Look up people still using 1940s fridges today. Appliances in America today are trash.

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skarn86 t1_irdv34u wrote

I did some rough math for cars.

Swapping a 15 old car for a new one within the same category, the break even point in terms of CO2 emission is about 300000km, say 200000 miles. If the old car is ~40years old the break even is much much shorter.

So by all means make sure you get a good amount of miles out of a car, but a 50y/o Mustang is just an ecological monstrosity and should be only be used as a show piece.

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