Submitted by Dokayn t3_z10bs2 in BuyItForLife
LowGradePlayer t1_ix8sjkz wrote
Reply to comment by zombienudist in How do you find out whether companies manufacture their products morally and sustainably? by Dokayn
Buy a used gas car.
When they are no longer available get a used alternative fuel vehicle.
You understand there is a huge carbon footprint to generate the electricity necessary for an e-vehicle and their batteries will never biodegrade, never.
zombienudist t1_ix91lab wrote
You understand there is a huge carbon foot print for burning gas. Again what matters is which one is worse. The math says the BEV is better in my case. So buying a used gas car would increase my carbon footprint over buying a new BEV. My suggestion is you do the math on this to see whether you are correct.
Sweet_Guard3904 t1_ix93ll7 wrote
I'm in the market for a new car, and opting for a used gas than and new hybrid based on the mileage I intend to drive. It won't be a daily driver, so I've calculated that the difference would only be about a metric ton on GHG emissions which I can easily offset, versus buying a new car made from virgin materials.
zombienudist t1_ix946dq wrote
Sounds like you have done the math and it is better for you to go that way. FOr me it is much better to buy a new BEV where I am instead of a used gas car based on the amount I drive and how clean the grid is. My comment was about how you have to be careful making blanket statements about what is better as there are many examples where it is better to buy something new then to keep using something that is older.
Walkop t1_ix95ofh wrote
It's really better to buy a new BEV vs a used gas vehicle? That's interesting. How old are we talking? I figured the older you get, the better it is, until you hit a tipping point where fuel economy is really bad.
If you're driving a lot of miles in a year, too, I'm sure that makes a big difference. The more miles you drive over the lifespan of the vehicle the better a battery vehicle is.
Really, I feel like it actually depends on how long you plan on keeping the vehicle. E.g. f you keep a battery electric vehicle for 25 years after you purchase it, there's no way in heck any gas vehicle is going to be that over 25 years; new OR used. Obviously, the batteries lasting that long is doubtful, but the point remains.
zombienudist t1_ix9bvtv wrote
Whether it is better depends on the factors used. Operationally the numbers are easy to do then you just have to figure out the manufacturing emissions. But yes in my case here it is better to buy a new BEV. The numbers are actually pretty easy to do from a carbon emissions point of view especially for the operation.
Here is an example of the math and I am doing it in metric because that's what we use here. I drive around 24,000 kms a year. So if I bought a gas car (or kept using one that I already bought) I would use 1882 liters of gasoline to drive that distance if the car got 7.84 L per 100 km (30 MPG). Each liter of fuel emits 2.3kg of carbon when burned and then there is another 0.4 kg of carbon per liter to extract and refine oil into gas. So a year i am looking at 5081 kgs of CO2 to drive that distance in the used gas car.
My BEV gets around 6.2 kms per kWh in efficiency on average. So to drive 24,000 kms will require 3871 kWh of electricity. Charging losses will add about 10% onto that number so make the number 4100 kWh a year used. Our grid produces about 45 grams of CO2 per kWh produced. So that is 184.5 kgs of CO2 or 28 times less CO2 then the gas car above.
See I think this is where people just don't really understand these numbers. They believe that the gas car and BEV might be far closer in operational emissions then they are. And they possibly could be on a dirtier grid. But on a clean grid the amount of CO2 from the car is almost negligible. In fact my car emits less CO2 in operation then I breath out in a year. And based on this (a negative view of electric cars) a 75 kWh battery will emit about 4500 kgs of CO2 to build the battery.
https://8billiontrees.com/carbon-offsets-credits/carbon-footprint-of-electric-cars-vs-gasoline/
So that is a tiny amount compared to the 15,243 kgs of CO2 the gas car will emit in operation alone over the next 3.
So again it is far better here to buy a new BEV then keep driving a used gas car if you want to reduce your carbon emissions where I live and with my numbers. Where you live and with your numbers it might be different.
Fryceratops t1_ix9weuh wrote
A gas car battery never biodegrades. In addition the claims you are making about EV's are straight out of gas company funded studies. It might be the case the footprint of a new EV is greater than a specific used car but you cannot generalize that for all ev's.
LowGradePlayer t1_ix9xgii wrote
Reduce
Reuse
Recycle
Fryceratops t1_ixa10lb wrote
Sometimes that does not work to be the better option. There are times when new is going to be better over the long term, for example most medical implants, or in cases of things that use toxic or otherwise less ideal chemicals like old fridges running on CFC refrigerants. Reusing is ideal for most things but not everything.
zombienudist t1_ixa3tsn wrote
Even just the extra energy of using something that is less efficient could mean it is better to make a new one rather then keep using it.
Fruitndveg t1_ix9pj0o wrote
I’m so tired of this misinformation. The batteries get recycled. It’s really simple.
LowGradePlayer t1_ix9xcmk wrote
How long will it take a batter to biodegrade once it can no longer be recycled?
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