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EarthExile t1_iuj24h9 wrote

Reply to comment by maxanderson350 in Outrageous ideologues running for Board of Education in your town? by Throwaway103122CT

You are gay and married to another gay person, do neither of you know any of the countless people who'd have been abused and/or disowned if their parents had known? I'm straight and I know a bunch of them.

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maxanderson350 t1_iuj35lj wrote

Yes, we do. I was one of them (disowned, not abused).

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EarthExile t1_iuj3wfz wrote

So right there is an excellent reason not to have schools police childrens' sexualities and report them to their parents. School was my refuge from the abuse of my parents.

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maxanderson350 t1_iuj4exe wrote

I agree that is a reason to not have schools out students. But that is only one side of the coin - for me, the reasons to out a child to their parents are more persuasive. Specifically:

  1. It is immoral for schools to withhold important (even vital) information from parents regarding their child and their well-being.
  2. The withholding of such information is allowed regardless of who the parents are or what they believe.
  3. The withholding places a school employee's values and morals above the values and morals of a family, which may lead to discrimination based upon religion, ethnicity or immigrant status.
  4. It may result in harms to the child because the parents lack critical information about the child's needs, threats, or risks.
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ertebolle t1_iuj84ew wrote

You're essentially proposing to take something that is currently a judgement call between the student and the school and replace it with an inflexible requirement; this seems risky.

If a child's parents are likely to be supportive - if they're not going to use this "critical information" to kick the kid out of their home or send them to conversion therapy or some other awful thing - then the odds are that the child and the school are going to work together to figure out a way to come out to them anyway.

If, on the other hand, they're likely to respond badly, you're creating an impossible situation for everyone; the kid has to go through school hiding their identity, terrified that somebody might find out they're gay + tell their parents. And if some teacher does find out, then they're in a situation where their career is in jeopardy unless they out this kid to their parents and thus subject them to abuse.

I'd like to think that in 99% of cases - at least in Connecticut - parents would continue to love and support their children even if they had deep moral misgivings about their sexual orientation, but even if that were the case, you've still got that 1% of kids whose lives would be utterly destroyed by their school outing them. It may have worked out for you - which is great, and congratulations on surviving that absolutely awful situation - but it might not work out so well for others.

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maxanderson350 t1_iujasg0 wrote

I agree that my approach is risky - I just see it as the lesser of two bad options.

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EarthExile t1_iujdb9x wrote

What is the potential harm that outing children averts? I honestly have been trying to think of anything.

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maxanderson350 t1_iujeayi wrote

I listed the 4 above.

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EarthExile t1_iujgg6z wrote

Your points imply that there is some risk inherent to kids being gay and their parents not knowing yet, but I don't see the actual harm there. I am very familiar with the harm inherent in outing people, even adults- they can face ostracism, abuse, discrimination, lose their jobs, etc. But the other side of the coin is not apparent to me at all.

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maxanderson350 t1_iujnhdv wrote

The harms I see off the top of my head are:

- breaking the trust and bonds between parents and child;

- preventing the parents from providing often crucial guidance to their child, including access to medical care (e.g. Prep or MP vax);

- having the parents teach their child completely useless sex ed instead of things that the child actually needs to know given their orientation.

I see these harms as more salient in 2022 Connecticut than a risk of a teenage losing her job because of being a lesbian or facing discrimination.

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EarthExile t1_iujpd1j wrote

Maybe this is the difference between us, you're speaking from the perspective of a parent who is open and welcoming of their kid, and wants to do right by them. But I doubt you're the kind of parent whose kid would feel the need to conceal themselves from you.

I'm thinking about the parents I had, the kinds of people who will take a kid's door off the hinges if they suspect there's masturbation taking place, or beat them savagely for 'seeming queer.' People like that don't have a trusting bond in the first place, just authority and wants.

If I told my parents I was gay, they wouldn't customize my sex education and get me on prep, they'd kick my ass and keep me from my friends.

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maxanderson350 t1_iujqrwz wrote

That's part of the difference, but another aspect of my opinion I think arises from what I think young gay men need - access to medications that keep them safe and that is where parental knowledge is crucial. Too many young gay kids unreasonably fear their parents' reaction and thus don't come out to them, while at the same time engaging in unsafe practices that they can't get protection for because their parents don't know about it. I see that as the bigger risk to young gay men that rejection or ostracism - maybe in the 1990s, but not today.

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ertebolle t1_iujfvad wrote

Again, if the school would out the kid and the kid doesn’t want to be outed, that’s not going to result in the parents finding out - it’s just going to mean the kid has to hide their identity at school so the school doesn’t out them.

So there’s little possibility that this would enable parents to help their kid - absent the kid making a mistake, they’re not going to find out either way, you’re just taking away the one other potential safe space the kid had.

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