Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

StoneTemplePilates t1_iy99dgk wrote

Reply to comment by dominus_aranearum in Garbage Disposal wired directly into Dishwasher - fixing wiring and adding outlets by TonyFugginMontana

Does that apply if you aren't replacing the switch though? If all op is doing is replacing the dishwasher and not altering anything with the actual wiring, I would think it would stand as is.

3

dominus_aranearum t1_iy9bgzn wrote

Somewhat irrelevant as the j-box for the dishwasher isn't going to be large enough for all the wires anyhow.

Technically, if only the dishwasher changed, then no, you wouldn't have to update the switch leg wire for the disposal, but if you're adding an outlet and GFCI, it should be brought up to code.

1

LongEngineering7 t1_iy9k3pi wrote

Well, also AFCI if you really want to bring it up to code, which is an ass-pain tbh. You can get GFCI/AFCI combination outlets. Those outlets only last for about ten years though before needing to be replaced, which not many people know about.

Wiring AFCI into a breaker is an extra pain that I would never attempt.

1

StoneTemplePilates t1_iy9toah wrote

What I was getting at is that op is completely overcomplicating this job by adding anything to it at all. (S)he began with a concern about the wiring being contained within the dishwasher and wanting to rectify that, but it doesn't need rectifying. Just change the dishwasher and move on is what I'm saying. Cheaper, quicker, and no code issues that be dealt with.

1

dominus_aranearum t1_iy9usi9 wrote

>but it doesn't need rectifying.

It does. I don't recall ever hooking up a dishwasher that had a j-box with enough volume for the extra wires.

1

StoneTemplePilates t1_iybmduo wrote

The wires were already installed that way, so clearly it's doable.

1

dominus_aranearum t1_iybnqwq wrote

Not code. New dishwasher necessitates it being brought up to code.

Additionally, it's unsafe and it can lead to heat issues, then fire.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should, especially when it comes to safety with electrical. Most electrical code is written because of death, fire or other injury/damage.

1

StoneTemplePilates t1_iybo28v wrote

No it doesn't. Now you're just making shit up. Please cite the nec code that says so.

It is not unsafe. A junction box is a junction box, and it doesn't matter whether it is attached to the wall or to the dishwasher.

1

dominus_aranearum t1_iybp9fc wrote

314.16

1

StoneTemplePilates t1_iybulcz wrote

Here's the j-box on my dishwasher. 6in wide, 1-1/4in deep, 2-1/8in tall puts it just under 16in^3. Even taking a very conservative 1in^3 inch out for the connector in there, it's still plenty big enough for another 12/2 wire.

1

dominus_aranearum t1_iybvpf1 wrote

That's your dishwasher. Personally, I've never seen one that size, but it obviously exists.

What's really a shame is that you told me I was making shit up, basically calling me a liar. When I'm wrong, I admit it. Already did with the neutral at the switch. I own up to my mistakes because I learn from them. Rather than admit you made a mistake when I point out the NEC code for j-box fill requirements that you asked for, you instead go through the trouble of opening up yours to prove what? That yours is big enough. In the dozens I've installed/removed over my remodel career, I've never seen one that big. The code requirement is still there and is something to pay attention to.

1

StoneTemplePilates t1_iybw7bh wrote

Lol, I sure didn't make any mistake. I asked what code you were referring to since you seemed to be stating that the new dishwasher requires all wiring it connects to to be brought up to code. If I thought you were referring to j-box size, I'd have told you you were wrong to begin with.

Also, the "trouble" of opening mine up was three screws. What kind of lazy electrician are you, anyway? I told you you're making shit up, because you are. You're all over this post citing nec and so far you've been wrong more than you've been right.

Edit: I also just saw your other comment about the space required being 13.25in^3. that's not correct either, because you are assuming the clamp is inside the box, which it usually is not, especially on a small box. With a very common size being around 2"x2"x3", I'd wager that just about any dishwasher j-box is big enough or very close to it.

1

bluGill t1_iy9pgj6 wrote

When a job goes from a grandfathered in allowed minor change to a major change requiring updating to the latest code is not well defined. In general I would expect that since it was already like that you are only making a minor change. However you would need input from a local inspector (or possibly a lawyer) to say for sure

1

StoneTemplePilates t1_iy9ubk7 wrote

Or, ya know, don't try to fix what ain't broken. Seeing as there is no safety concern and really no benefit to adding a receptacle, just replace the dishwasher and leave everything else as is. No inspector needed for that.

1