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Shillforbigusername t1_j6xnjfo wrote

Reply to comment by Bennyjig in Putin and the Presidents (2023) FRONTLINE: Vladimir Putin’s clashes with multiple American presidents as he’s tried to rebuild the Russian empire. [00:54:22] by johny4304

Russia’s situation is worse in general, but I don’t see any substantial deviation from the Washington consensus in the mainstream when it comes to whatever the crucial foreign policy topic of the day is. Anything that does deviate is labeled foreign propaganda, and anyone that challenges the narrative - no matter how well credentialed - become persona non grata (Stephen F. Cohen and John Mearsheimer come to mind, but this goes back at least all the way to people like Phil Donahue getting his show cancelled by NBC executives specifically because of his opposition to the Iraq War).

Labeling anything that deviates from the views expressed by the government as “foreign propaganda” is the oldest authoritarian trick in the book, and it’s the norm here.

Whether by pure coincidence or not, the “mainstream” media consensus is the mainstream Washington consensus. You’re not getting objective reporting from them anymore than you could expect to get it from the State Department of intelligence community. You’re getting the American perspective.

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Bennyjig t1_j6xruvn wrote

Again, you’re simply proving my point. 1. In the west we are actually allowed to read whatever press we want, in Russia they cannot. 2. We actually elect our presidents/leaders and are therefore, by definition, not totalitarian. 3. Russian press IS propaganda. Which, if you had bothered to research anything, would find to be the case.

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Shillforbigusername t1_j6xt80w wrote

You couldn’t even bother to read my comment, apparently. What a bad faith interpretation. Really slaying those straw men, though.

I keep forgetting Reddit is not a place for rational discussion on anything related to foreign policy and national security issues.

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myDooM_ t1_j6xzcr9 wrote

>Russian press IS propaganda.

Yes, unlike all the mouthpieces of Western media 🤡

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Bennyjig t1_j6yk8f1 wrote

Did I ever say western press didn’t have propaganda? I said we have free range to access everything, whereas your favorite country does not. I also like how you can’t contest Putin being an authoritarian or anything about Russian news because you haven’t researched it, watched it, or understand propaganda when it’s given to you.

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myDooM_ t1_j708bj3 wrote

In my country, anyone who didn't follow the narrative were quickly shut down, and excluded from participating. Even the old commies were "forced" (well they have no spine) to support NATO. Otherwise they were basically Nazis.

Russian media like RT was actually quickly banned as well. People who dared support Russia are fined in some countries ("Z" suddenly as bad as swastika). All of our media serves the same western lies about the Ukraine war, lack of insight as to what lies behind so people have no idea what it's about - but they sure hate them russians! (Feels like 1956). Google makes sure to bury any media that doesn't behave, as "misinformation" sites. Same obviously goes for all the other sites westernes use to find information.

So much for freedom.

But oh right, Russia bad!! Putin bad!! 🤡

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Ramboxious t1_j73yoxy wrote

>western lies about the Ukraine war

Can you give some examples?

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myDooM_ t1_j76ej7e wrote

Why?

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Ramboxious t1_j76ibcj wrote

Because I’m not aware of any western lies being spread by mainstream media, so I would be curious about what lies you’re talking about.

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myDooM_ t1_j76srep wrote

Haha, ok.

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Ramboxious t1_j76vwty wrote

So there are no lies? Or how am I supposed to interpret that?

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myDooM_ t1_j76wuab wrote

It's a waste of time.

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Ramboxious t1_j76xd7e wrote

So why did you post the comment in the first place if you can’t back it up lol?

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Shillforbigusername t1_j6yo43f wrote

>your favorite country

Ah, yes. Anyone who’s critical of the narratives about Russia and the war in Ukraine must surely love Russia. Good call. Hey, remember all those “Ho Chi Minh lovers” protesting the Vietnam War? What about all those piece of shit terrorist sympathizers that objected to drone wars and CIA torture programs? What about all those scumbags who loved Iraq so much they doubted the presence of WMD and urged that we not invade Iraq? Fucking idiots getting duped by Iraqi propaganda.

These people are the worst of the worst, amirite? What kind of evildoer casts doubt on our media and government’s claims about our adversaries?

Traitors all. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

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Bennyjig t1_j6ypuxw wrote

This coming from you who believes totalitarian countries are a great source for news. In the 1940s you’d be saying how actually we should be able to get news from Nazi germany. You are out of your league intellectually. Go to bed

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Shillforbigusername t1_j6yquxk wrote

I never once even remotely suggested Russian news isn’t propaganda.

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Bennyjig t1_j6ywazf wrote

So then you’re arguing nothing and agreeing with me, cool.

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Shillforbigusername t1_j6yy5mt wrote

If you agree that the American point of view as expressed by our mainstream/corporate media is just propaganda, too - but with a decentralized and privatized veneer - then yes. That was the point I was trying to make the whole time.

Didn’t think I had to clarify that just because I’m saying what we’re getting in our media is an American point of view and far from objective truth doesn’t mean I’m saying Russian news is to be trusted.

Everyone already knows about Russian propaganda. In fact, they’re so sensitive to it that they constantly label anything that deviates from their understanding of these issues as such. Yet most seem inexplicably credulous of the official narratives as told by our government and media here when they simply don’t have a track record of being honest, save for some occasional solid journalism.

Edit: Added a few words for clarity.

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Shillforbigusername t1_j6ydsci wrote

These people are absolutely oblivious. It’s incredible to watch. They seem to think that what information warfare means is that our government’s foreign adversaries lie about everything while our government and media just set the record straight with the objective truth and let the chips fall where they may. It’s a level of child-like naïveté that never ceases to amaze me.

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