Surur t1_is2hie6 wrote
Reply to comment by OldFashnd in South Korean researchers say they have developed an anode-free lithium-ion battery that is 40% more energy dense than existing batteries and will enable EVs to travel 630km (390 miles) on a single charge. by lughnasadh
This is about EVs.
More than half of EVs do not use cobalt.
DRC only supplies 50% of the cobalt in the world, so potentially 25% of EVs have DRC cobalt
90% of DRC cobalt are from big, non-artisinal mines without potential child labour, meaning only 2.5% of EVs have artisanal cobalt in it with potential child labour.
And you believe this is a major issue with EVs.
OldFashnd t1_is2oixw wrote
How is that related to what I just said? Any company using cobalt should be doing it, not just EV companies. I don’t care what percent of stuff has it in there, i care about the 40,000 kids that will have long term health problems because of cobalt. Any company using the cobalt should be doing work to end it, just like clothing companies should be doing the same for the labor they use offshore.
Surur t1_is2r1r1 wrote
The obligation to the citizens come from their government, but in any case, this may be educational:
Tesla’s engagement in the DRC and the Fair Cobalt Alliance (FCA)
The DRC is an important source of cobalt for Tesla batteries. We will continue supporting sourcing from the DRC provided our responsible sourcing standards are met. While Tesla does not source cobalt from Artisanal and Small-Scale Mining (ASM), we recognize the importance of ASM for local livelihoods. This is why Tesla provides funding to, and sits on, the Steering Committee of the Fair Cobalt Alliance (FCA), a multi-stakeholder initiative to support the improvement of conditions in communities impacted by artisanal mining through the following activities:
• Occupational health and safety awareness raising campaign for mine workers
• First aid training for mine workers and selection of safety captains
• Distribution of protective equipment to washer women
• Creation of savings groups for mining community members paired with financial literacy training
• Development of referral system for children engaged in mining activities, including child labor notification protocol, remediation solution packages, and guidelines for case managers on remediation steps, in collaboration with the NGO, Save the Children
• Trainings related to child rights
• Electrification of five schools covering students through the distribution of solar-chargeable portable lamps
• A marketplace and football field selected for the placement of lighting poles
https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2021-tesla-impact-report.pdf
OldFashnd t1_is3212x wrote
I believe that moral obligation to help people that you’re benefitting from is existential, not based on government lines. People are people.
And again, that’s all fine and dandy, but the FCA hasn’t actually done anything yet.
Beyond that, it isn’t only artisanal mining that’s a problem
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/glencore-congo-cobalt-mining-lawsuit/45446800
Surur t1_is38pis wrote
That whole case sounded incredible shaky and this outcome is no surprise.
As to the impact of the FCA
https://www.faircobaltalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Q2-2022-Progress-Update_EN-1.jpg
But that is all by the by really. I don't see you talking about how the people who make rubber for the wheels are being looked after. The whole narrative is in bad faith.
OldFashnd t1_is39yxq wrote
Who won the lawsuit is irrelevant, the lawsuit was against the American tech companies using the cobalt. The point of my posting it was to show that child labor is not only used in the artisanal mines. From the article:
> The researchers on the case estimate that thousands of children mining cobalt – including in concessions owned by Glencore – are forced to work under hazardous conditions at risk of losing life and limb and at the expense of education.
> Some of the child miners, the class action lawsuits notes, are as young as six and have been trafficked to work on the mines. Ten of the plaintiffs in the case were severely wounded or maimed. “John Doe 3” lost his leg at a mine operated by a subsidiary of a Chinese mining company.
You don’t see me talking about rubber wheels because the topic of the thread is lithium batteries.
Surur t1_is4if1o wrote
The law suite was not won, it was dismissed, it was so ludicrous. Despite this, for some reason, you still believe their erroneous claims.
> You don’t see me talking about rubber wheels because the topic of the thread is lithium batteries.
You are talking about Cobalt child labour because you are attacking EVs. You do not really care about worker welfare.
OldFashnd t1_is5fzqz wrote
The lawsuit was dismissed because it’s obvious that the American tech companies cannot be sued for the work environment of a company in another country.
> you are talking about cobalt child labour because you are attacking EV’s. You do not really care about worker welfare.
Well that’s just patently false. I don’t have a problem with EV’s, never did. I’d buy a ford lighting if I could afford one and I wasn’t concerned about the child labor issues. I’m 100% aware of the positive impact EV’s will have in the future. My only issue is child labor, as I’ve said for this entire thread.
Edit: typo
Surur t1_is5lwff wrote
> American tech companies cannot be sued for the work environment of a company in another country.
Also called an attempted cash grab.
> My only issue is child labor, as I’ve said for this entire thread.
If that is true (which I seriously doubt), now you know it's a non-issue affecting a vanishingly small amount of batteries used by EVs. Hopefully, now you know you will never mention it again.
OldFashnd t1_is5miby wrote
God, you’re insufferable. It’s still a problem until there aren’t kids working in mines. I don’t care if it’s 2.5% of EV’s man, it’s 40,000 kids.
Surur t1_is5n6j5 wrote
This is neither the time and place to campaign against child labour, which affects much more than cobalt mining. You seem to be campaigning against EVs instead, which is why I said you are arguing in bad faith.
If you are campaigning against child labour, you can use your time more effectively elsewhere.
While you are fake crying about 40,000 children, about 4.7 million children aged 5–14 work in Congo.
E.g. in the Congo children are employed in the following areas:
Sector/Industry
- Agriculture: Farming, including in the production of manioc, peanuts, corn, plantains, potatoes, and sugarcane
- Fishing
- Industry: Working in stone quarries,† including breaking stones
- Services
- Domestic work
- Market vending and carrying heavy loads
- Categorical Worst Forms of Child Labor‡: Commercial sexual exploitation, sometimes as a result of human trafficking
- Forced labor in farming, including in the production of cocoa, fishing, domestic work, and working in stone quarries
- Forced labor in market vending and working in bakeries
- Forced labor of indigenous Baka, Aka, and Kola children in farming, including in the production of manioc, and in fishing, hunting, and domestic work
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/resources/reports/child-labor/congo-republic
Rwanda is even worse
> ILO estimates Rwanda has 400,000 child workers. Of these, 120,000 are thought to be involved in the worst forms of child labour and 60,000 are child domestic workers.
OldFashnd t1_is5p1nz wrote
You don’t get to decide when the time and place is to campaign against anything.
It may seem like I’m campaigning against EV’s to you, but that’s not what’s happening. I don’t have a problem with EV’s, never did, never said that I did.
I’ll happily fight for those kids too. I can’t know all of the ins and outs of every child labor force in the world, I’m just one person with a life and family of my own to take care of. Just because there are other places using child labor doesn’t mean this one isn’t an issue or is somehow acceptable. What you’re saying is like saying “why doesn’t the fca work towards ending child labor in other industries?” Because their mission is the cobalt mines. What did you expect me to do, post listing every child labor force in the DRC and explain steps to fix it? You keep trying to minimize it as if it isn’t a problem at all, and somehow the fact that their are other problems in the world makes this one acceptable.
Surur t1_is5vsb7 wrote
> You keep trying to minimize it as if it isn’t a problem at all
It's an incredibly minor problem for the topic, which is Li batteries. That is my whole point. It has already been addressed, and will become even smaller in the future.
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