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pete1901 t1_ixgriwt wrote

When the game is this heavily rigged I guess some people just decide not to play...

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SmuckSlimer t1_ixgy8az wrote

I worked full time for 4 months a bit over a year ago and I think I had zero days in the 120 where I went "damn, today I had a really fucking great day." I was just miserable and I hated everything. Nothing fixed the "I feel completely dead inside" sensation and I began to doubt everyone and everything around me. I just couldn't bring myself to give a fuck. Why bother if I'm gonna be miserable no matter what?

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RS2VietnamEnjoyer t1_ixgyv43 wrote

This is me

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[deleted] t1_ixgz0ls wrote

[removed]

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Binksyboo t1_ixhhqvi wrote

At least jail has free room and board. And you could pick any crime you want to get in.

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monofloyed t1_ixhz0bi wrote

Actually a lot of jails and prisons in the US I don't know of other countries, but actually bill inmates upon release for a daily rate stay × time in

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PunisherASM129 t1_ixhvy8u wrote

Please try to find another job. Don't let the assholes win.

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Introduction_Deep t1_ixi06ib wrote

They're all the same... I've wondered if living under a bridge would be better. Got so many years working my ass off, scripting, saving... Doesn't seem like it's been worth it.

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PunisherASM129 t1_ixi7a40 wrote

I went thru 8 jobs before I found one I could tolerate and even enjoy. Just for one data point. Don't let those motherfuckers grind you down.

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rolfraikou t1_ixhxzg1 wrote

I just got a raise for the first time in years. Then my rent went up the same exact amount as my raise. It was a pretty big raise too. Office job, skilled. Not like I'm working fast food or something, and it still feels like I did something wrong or something.

Between the slumlords we all owe money to just to exist, and a weird job market, what is the point? I just got out of another thread where someone was reminding me that "housing isn't a right" and it's a wonderful reminder that we're all at the whim of a few companies, it will all crumble if a few investors and banks fuck everything up, and that a lot of the world has no interest in helping as things get worse.

When this eventually starts to kill people more, maybe something will change. I doubt it though.

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adamsky1997 t1_ixi5eoe wrote

Would you take it to the streets?

I'm asking just to gauge the level of frustration

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rolfraikou t1_ixibb42 wrote

Depends, as there are many different ways people can take it to the streets. But ideally, yes.

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DonManuel t1_ixgui3d wrote

> decide

Often not a free decision I guess.

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[deleted] t1_ixhhdwe wrote

Well I think for many of us, by decide, we'll just go hang ourselves because there's no point in continuing it.

Why work to have sadness? There is no point if there is no happiness.

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Aromatic-Maize-247 t1_ixhjb5o wrote

Name does not check out.

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[deleted] t1_ixhlqw7 wrote

Yep, depression is a bitch. Trying to stay positive.

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OlafForkbeard t1_ixhyu6c wrote

Nihilism: Nothing matters, it's all pointless.

Pessimistic Nihilism: Nothing matters, why try?

Optimistic Nihilism: Nothing matters, and it's liberating.

Might I suggest the bottom ideology?

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thruster_fuel69 t1_ixi1a7f wrote

Agency nihilism: nothing matters unless we create meaning.

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OlafForkbeard t1_ixia1w9 wrote

That's the natural next step to what I proposed IMO.

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mxavierk t1_ixidfwl wrote

It's a very large step that many people don't take though.

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thruster_fuel69 t1_ixidj2a wrote

As a nice side benefit it also gives your personality a sharp edge, just remove the meaning and nothing matters. Off, on, win!

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CouncilofOrzhova t1_ixii2mz wrote

Optimistic Agency Nihilism: Nothing matters, and it’s liberating to create meaning.

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thruster_fuel69 t1_ixijdsg wrote

Pessimistic agency nihilism: nothing matters, and it's a bad idea to create meaning.

Not a fan of this one personally 😂

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bioluminum t1_ixif447 wrote

Double nihilism: nothing still doesn't matter

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thruster_fuel69 t1_ixif8jk wrote

Wouldn't that be, no meaning is the meaning? As a double negative.

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FTRFNK t1_ixif2qc wrote

Lol, it's not even an issue with "nothing matters" it's an issue with being treated like we're just above slaves toiling away for the rich to get richer, prices to go up and our hard work amounting to spinning tires in the mud.

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AnotherCodfish t1_ixj1z9e wrote

So, let's be stupidly happy without believing in anything.

Sounds stupid and irrelevant. But hey, you wouldn't mind would you? :D

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OlafForkbeard t1_ixlc9ip wrote

Nihilism isn't the belief in nothing. Nihilism is the belief that regardless of what's there, it doesn't matter.

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AnotherCodfish t1_ixld71j wrote

Regardless of what you believe is there or not. It's as much as perception as content.

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OlafForkbeard t1_ixmo2k5 wrote

Yes.

I'm not really sure what you attempting to oppose posit here. Those concepts are not mutually exclusive.

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AnotherCodfish t1_ixnleeb wrote

I think the concept of belief is key in my opinion. My point is nihilism is believing nothing matters, regardless of the fact it does or not.

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AnotherCodfish t1_ixj1lgk wrote

> There is no point if there is no happiness.

You need to read Nietzsche, Frankl, Jung, Buddah, Peterson. The point is not happiness, it's meaning. Life is suffering. The point is not happiness, it's meaning.

Staying positive is emotion. Find some meaning and you'll endure everything.

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[deleted] t1_ixj3nda wrote

Good way to phrase it, I would agree. I just think happiness comes from having meaning and purpose. You aren't inherently happy. You are happy from meeting challenges etc.

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AnotherCodfish t1_ixj4hhs wrote

I honestly think happiness is irrelevant. The goal is to flow really. Flow like water. To be one with the universe. Meaning helps keeping us focused and flowing with the universe.

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Illustrious-Law-6649 t1_ixi0cpq wrote

The trick is to make the game worth the candle.. let’s make the candle something to chase!

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megameh64 t1_ixig7gy wrote

Worth the candle is a Great fantasy novel

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etzel1200 t1_ixhs48o wrote

But this makes no sense. People worked even when conditions were much, much worse.

There is some sort of maladaption and people are simply checking out.

Cheap entertainment is good enough? I don’t know. Their lives are pretty shitty, but I guess they prefer this route to working?

I know a few NEETs. They’re comfortable enough they feel no need to change. They’re not happy, per se, but their needs are met.

It’s part of why I don’t get basic income. For some people it improves things. For others they just become NEETs. I think we’d end up with a lot more NEETs and it’s so much wasted potential.

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nox404 t1_ixibup5 wrote

Basic income is about giving choice to those who otherwise do not have it.

Wasted potential of people who do not want to contribute? What potential does forced labor have? I would argue that we waste so much more potential by keeping people in poverty and living pay check to pay check. Working 60 - 70 hour weeks to just meeting the basic needs. Families who can not spend any time together since mom and dad need to both work 50 hour weeks and are to exhausted to spend any meaningful time with their children.

A few opposite questions,

Who job is it to provide meaningful work too every America citizen?

How much money is a living wage?

How many hours per week does every American citizen need to work to be able meeting their house, Food and energy needs?

How do we create this above in every location across the entire united states?

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thegooddoctorben t1_ixjgrs8 wrote

>What potential does forced labor have?

The idea of "forced labor" (which doesn't mean actual slavery here) is so weird to me. Everyone who doesn't have a job is being supported by people who do. Maybe it's their spouse, their parents, their siblings, or the government, but the idea that people should be free to just quit work and expect other people to support them is odd. People have had to work to survive for the entire existence of humanity.

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Gremloch t1_ixk2tpm wrote

Your argument is "It's always been this way" and isn't really an argument. Things change. We have automation enough that farmers can feed millions more people with millions fewer workers. Why should those workers now go do other stuff "just because"? That is work for work's sake, not because it's needed.

We are quickly arriving at a time where food, energy, and many necessities could be provided by automated workers and there are no need for human workers AT ALL. Should we find more work for these people and force them to do something because we oppose "free rides" or should we clothe, feed, and house them and allow them to work on whatever makes them and their communities happy and fulfilled?

I would say that an environment where everyone can experiment without the fear of failure (homelessness, starvation, etc) will lead to huge leaps in innovation and quality of life for our species.

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Michaelmyers69420 t1_ixhxwj3 wrote

NEETs are better then human suffering imo

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[deleted] t1_ixi6z20 wrote

[deleted]

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Michaelmyers69420 t1_ixi869o wrote

Why the absolute need for growth? Why not chill a more, grow less? The idea of never ending growth is absurd.

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[deleted] t1_ixi8uhf wrote

[deleted]

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Michaelmyers69420 t1_ixi9h2g wrote

I think the future should be less work not more so I disagree, we should be moving towards a utopia not a dystopia.

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[deleted] t1_ixiafp6 wrote

[deleted]

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Michaelmyers69420 t1_ixiaw9x wrote

Chairs didn't exist until they suddenly did, we shouldn't let go of our goals just because they haven't been done before or resulted in fail experiments.

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[deleted] t1_ixib1bu wrote

[deleted]

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Michaelmyers69420 t1_ixibqlu wrote

Ahh yes let me explain an extremely complex economic and societal system in a reddit comment.

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[deleted] t1_ixicvf5 wrote

[deleted]

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ironicf8 t1_ixildjx wrote

It works is already at our very nearly at the point that all labor can be automated. Let the machines produce and let the humans do whatever they want with their time. Why did this concept scare people? Oh no we won't have jobs anymore the fucking horror....

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[deleted] t1_ixils4c wrote

[deleted]

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ironicf8 t1_iximmsd wrote

Yes,the purpose is what you choose to do at that point. You can study something you actually care about, find fun hobbies, read books, watch TV, play games. If you think forced labor is the only purpose in life you are a very sad person. The only people who are afraid are those living with generational wealth who already live this way and think it's due to some sort of gift they have that everyone else is lacking. When everyone can live like this then they are no longer special.

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[deleted] t1_ixinkq7 wrote

[deleted]

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ironicf8 t1_ixipp1o wrote

What? That's just your narrative bro. You are the one trying to force people to work who don't want to. I'm saying people can do whatever they want. There will probably be massive scientific discoveries and breakthroughs when people who want to study and learn have the freedom to do so. If some choose

>Sitting around watching tv all day

That is their choice not yours.

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[deleted] t1_ixiqc6z wrote

[deleted]

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ironicf8 t1_ixiqwe7 wrote

At what point in history did we have the means to produce everything we need and want with 0 labor?

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[deleted] t1_ixiug9g wrote

[deleted]

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ironicf8 t1_ixiwpf3 wrote

The point is no one does they are collectively "owned" by humanity. Why are you making stuff up about soul and sentience here? I'm out, I'd say have a good one but you seem pretty miserable.

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thruster_fuel69 t1_ixiehcu wrote

I'd also like to know, because I also think the universe would eat us alive the moment we stop growing and suffering.

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nox404 t1_ixi93w8 wrote

Sure some suffering is necessary for growth.

We have a ton of suffering that is removing growth.

Like here let me pull out your nails and break your bones. I causing growth OMG we have growth as you heal but that is not the kind of growth we want.

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AnotherCodfish t1_ixj2n0e wrote

This generation will be more dystopian than ever. They will truly sell their dignity for not suffering.

Good luck living in that world, NEETS. Or whatever you'll call yourselves.

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Rain1dog t1_ixhyu2s wrote

What is a NEET?

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PaxNova t1_ixi1ojw wrote

Not in Employment, Education, or Training.

It means they're doing nothing for income and doing nothing to improve their situation.

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eight-sided t1_ixisjz9 wrote

Cool acronym but it doesn't need to be negative. It says nothing at all about whether someone is making money from investments, and/or is happily retired, or being supported, and has a perfectly fine situation that doesn't need improvement.

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PaxNova t1_ixiua26 wrote

The full term is "Youth Not in Employment, Education, or Training." It doesn't count people retired, and if they're making money from investments, they are considered self-employed.

It does count people being supported, though if it's because of disability, that's a different category. It's possible they're just self-sufficient, but I'd they live in a city, I doubt they farm enough to feed themselves and get their income elsewhere.

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thereisafrx t1_ixk9s6v wrote

I think what you meant to say is, "that's a NEET acronym".

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JokrSmokrMidntTokr t1_ixmfj0h wrote

Wagie, Wagie, get in cagie. All day long you sweat and ragie. NEET is comfy, NEET is cool. NEET is free from work and school. Wagie trapped and wagie dies. NEET eats tendies, sauce, and fries.

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LowBarometer t1_ixidtcv wrote

Why does everyone need to work anyway? Why not just hang around? I mean, it's not for me, but I suppose if I couldn't find a job I liked, I'd rather hang around and live off the dole.

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Nimelennar t1_ixkgolo wrote

Live off the dole and do what, though?

The horrible part about what I read isn't "people not working," it's "spending the time that that freed up staring at a screen all day."

If I couldn't work, I'd like to think that I'd write, or sing, or dance, or kayak, or hike, or...

And hopefully along the way, I'd find someone to do all these fun things with.

But as someone who has spent several years struggling with depression, I'm aware of the risk that I'd spend that time doing, well, nothing. Arguing with people on the internet. Watching videos criticizing movies I don't ever intend to see. Doomscrolling through page after page of bad news. Because that's what a lot of my free time during Covid was spent doing.

If that's what "hang around" consists of, I think I'd rather work. It may not be pleasant and it may not be fulfilling, but at least it' something to do.

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F33dR t1_ixjv822 wrote

I opted not to play in the marriage game. Seeing all my friends get divorced for no good reason, fuuuuucckkk that.

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yaosio t1_ixl5wrx wrote

I'm planning on dying before my dad. If I don't die before him I can go to Alaska and freeze to death. Or maybe death valley and walk off never to be found again. I'm going to create some content for mystery podcasts by stuffing my pockets full of meaningless code words and a diary with a fake story about my time in the forest and the guy that is following me deeper into it.

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Dynamo_Ham t1_ixhwh3l wrote

This is too much letting these sedentary men off the hook. Sure, it’s true that it’s hard to motivate to work hard when you know you’re getting exploited and will barely scrape by - so why bother? I get it. But it’s not all someone else’s fault. The author being interviewed in the link is saying it’s more than that - this phenomenon can’t be explained by economics and market forces alone. It transcends job availability and wages. He’s saying that - at least for certain types of men - once a he is out of the workforce for awhile, he won’t come back even when there ARE good opportunities for good jobs. They will check out, and stay checked out - regardless. They will simply choose to mooch off the rest of the world for life. Sorry, America is far from the perfect land of opportunity, but I don’t sympathize with those guys.

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sajtu t1_ixi0lhr wrote

It is other people forcing them into a system where they must work to live, which is unnecessary and merely a tool to enforce hierarchy. Nobody should have to work who doesn't want to because we would be able to manage without them while also taking care of everyone. It it just not so at the moment. Peoepl are saying fuck it until then. You don't have to, but don't force your beliefs about what kind of behaviour should be rewarded with the oportunity to keep on living.

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Dynamo_Ham t1_ixio0po wrote

If it’s your opinion that people ought not be expected to actually be productive and support themselves - that’s your opinion and you’re welcome to it. It’s not mine. And I’m fine with eating the downvotes on that.

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sajtu t1_ixj4ox6 wrote

This isn't about downvotes. You are in favor of a mix of super complicated slavery and religion. You think it is fine for people to suffer and toil pointlessly. You are wrong.

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Dynamo_Ham t1_ixjasgr wrote

Bullshit. I believe in reasonable pay for a day’s work, with benefits, and healthcare. I don’t believe people have a “right” to do nothing and get supported by society. Hopefully someday we’ll live in a post-scarcity world and everyone can do what they want. If people want to waste their lives doing nothing then - great. But we don’t live in that world now. Generating wealth requires effort. That wealth should be fairly shared - yes. It’s not today - I agree. I should be. But the people who are able-bodied and decide to do literally nothing useful? Tough shit.

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sajtu t1_ixjmhv4 wrote

Look up that horseshit about not being post scarcity.

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sajtu t1_ixjmic5 wrote

Look up that horseshit about not being post scarcity.

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