Surur t1_iysoxss wrote
Reply to comment by reboot_the_world in Solar energy in Europe will be 10 times cheaper than gas by 2030 by EnergyTransitionNews
Amortising the cost over the lifetime of the solar kind of ignores the concept of payback time, doesn't it, which is much more important for home users.
reboot_the_world t1_iyspsrg wrote
Are we having a conversation about "solar is free" or about "solar is a good investment"? Thanks to the war, our energy cost rose from 28 cent per kWh to 45 to 60 cent per kWh form an energy supplier. Having photovoltaic on the roof is an awesome investment.
Surur t1_iysr8p9 wrote
No, I dont think you understand the consumer viewpoint.
Because you have to make an upfront payment, and also because you cant opt out of electricity bills, getting solar is not just like switching to a cheaper electricity provider which sells energy at 28c per kwh.
Consumers have to decide if the upfront investment is worthwhile which is where the payback period comes in.
And obviously, after something is paid back, it's free afterwards.
reboot_the_world t1_iysvmf8 wrote
You mean the consumer that has no clue about economics?
You don't live for free in your own home. You need to invest in the preservation of it, or you have no house after a while. The same with photovoltaic. The components of your pv system have a finite lifetime. It will break down if you not renew parts of it all the time.
Here is a quote of a study from the fraunhofer institute from germany: In 2040, the electricity production costs are forecast to be between 3.58 and 6.77 cents/kWh for small PV roof systems and between 1.92 and 3.51 cents/kWh for ground-mounted systems. From 2024, the electricity generation costs of all PV systems (without battery storage) will be less than 10 cents/kWh. https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/de/veroeffentlichungen/studien/studie-stromgestehungskosten-erneuerbare-energien.html
Quote: 'Fraunhofer Society for the Advancement of Applied Research' is a German research organization with 76 institutes spread throughout Germany, each focusing on different fields of applied science (as opposed to the Max Planck Society, which works primarily on basic science). With some 29,000 employees, mainly scientists and engineers, and with an annual research budget of about €2.8 billion, it is the biggest organization for applied research and development services in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraunhofer_Society
But i am sure that they only need to talk to you and you can convince them, that pv energy is for free after a short time. Sorry, but you are wrong.
Surur t1_iysw1lt wrote
I dont think you understand - its just another way of looking at the same thing, and one which makes a lot more sense.
But you don't seem to understand - pity.
You probably do not understand why people are so eager to install solar despite the costs actually going up this year, but let me explain - its because the payback period has reduced.
Like I said, pity.
reboot_the_world t1_iysxp56 wrote
I gave you an example. If you have an big oil tank and fill it full, you pay many years nearly nothing till it is empty you and you need to fill it again. It is totally stupid to say you have free energy, only because you paid the cost upfront and than many years nearly nothing.
This is the same for solar. You pay the cost upfront and then many years nearly nothing and than you pay again a big bunch of money to renew the parts of your system. Yes, like when you pay upfront to fill a big oil tank, you can think a few years, you get your energy for free, thanks to not getting a bill for a few years. But it is dead wrong.Hint: I have pv on my roof and i am not able to get drunk enough to think one second that i get the energy for free. Maybe i am not the right consumer, or maybe i have reality on my site?
The right thinking is, that you have energy cheaper than your neighbor without pv.
Surur t1_iysyypk wrote
> I gave you an example. If you have an big oil tank and fill it full, you pay many years nearly nothing till it is empty you and you need to fill it again.
That is a silly example, isn't it. Again, you are ignoring the payback period. You paid for your fuel ahead of time.
If you buy 2000L of fuel oil ahead of time and use it over a year, there is no payback period - it costs exactly the same as if you bought it month to month.
It's more like buying a hacked satellite dish and getting free TV.
You are investing in the capability, not the fuel.
reboot_the_world t1_iyt1vom wrote
If your bought the oil for 2000 Euro and thanks to the energy crisis, it cost now 10.000 Euro, you also save money.
But i understand now what you mean. You are right, it is a different view on the same thing.
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