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joekak t1_izh2yid wrote

Reply to comment by its-octopeople in The technological singularity is happening (oc/opinion) by FrogsEverywhere

Meanwhile a majority of humans are walking around without an internal monologue

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its-octopeople t1_izh4ys1 wrote

At least I'm willing to believe they still have a subjective experience of their own existence.

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FrogsEverywhere OP t1_izhvts9 wrote

This weirds me out too. But I've met people who don't have it and they're like super carpe Diem types and they seem quite happy. I'd say that I even look up to them for inspiration.

It's possible the internal monologue is a neurosis. I am quite neurotic and I have a strong inner monologue. I don't know if those things are correlated.

But I'm not sure how you could be neurotic without an inner voice. If you just have silence or pictures how could you develop any pathologies?

With mysteries like this it sure makes it hard to determine when AI becomes conscious or not when even humans have such different types of consciousness.

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joekak t1_izhxhyj wrote

I've been putting it off but I'm really interested to look up if schizophrenia, or specifically auditory hallucinations, can be a side effect of developing an internal monologue later in life, or just having it randomly come and go. Maybe they've gone 40 years without an internal voice and then one day it's just there and they're stuck thinking "WHO THE FUCK IS TALKING RIGHT NOW..." Your internal voice wouldn't sound like anything you've heard recorded.

Been curious ever since I watched 1899 and the one woman was absolutely convinced she was hearing God, but her whole just thought she was bat shit and just went with it to keep the peace.

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MrRogersRulz t1_izihtd8 wrote

I just learned in this thread that we all didn't have an internal voice. And it is crazy. But it has been there forever for me. Except, I suppose, for my earliest pre-language memories. And these are just a few very vivid images that I do treasure apart from the consciousness that is expressed in narrative. It has made me think, I think in conjunction other writings on consciousness, that internally humans may be a holographic projection in terms of physics, and that their may indeed be a voice behind our experience. I just never realized that everyone did not have the same experience. It is totally insane to have just assumed we were all basically the exact same in our processing. Derp.

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ackermann t1_izh92ix wrote

I’d be curious to know how the presence or absence of an internal monologue correlates with various life outcomes, intelligence, spatial reasoning, empathy or emotional intelligence, income, etc.

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joekak t1_izhae2u wrote

This details some of the effects it can have. Basically having an internal dialogue can help with critical thinking and problem solving, but also slow down your reading speed if you can't turn it off, and being critical of yourself can cause self esteem issues. Mine distracts me with a thousand questions while I'm reading and before I know it I just glossed over ten pages and actually read nothing.

https://irisreading.com/how-do-i-know-if-i-have-an-inner-monologue/

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Bananskrue t1_izietrx wrote

That's very interesting. I've tried learning speed reading so many times but I have to REALLY concentrate on suppressing my inner monologue and eventually just gave up because my inner monologue always won. Generally I can't read faster than the speed in which I speak unless I concentrate on shutting off my inner monologue. Then again, I'm also constantly talking to myself to the point where it often becomes a dialogue rather than a monologue. I never knew it was possible to NOT have an inner monologue or the compulsion of driving one varied from individual to individual.

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joekak t1_izit67q wrote

I always wondered why I had a hard time speed reading, too. I guess there are tutorials or specific classes just to learn how to get rid of the dialogue. I can do it for a couple pages but I need practice.

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MrRogersRulz t1_izh8iws wrote

Personally, I haven't explored the significance of the term "internal monologue" in this setting. I wonder if you could share just a bit more of your thoughts on the term as you used it here. I'm interested if you have the time for a response. Thanks.

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its-octopeople t1_izhddww wrote

Some people experience some or all of their thoughts as being spoken by a voice in their head. Some people don't. Generally, people of either group are surprised to learn of the other's existence.

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Drakolyik t1_izhqwdh wrote

I'm a person who always has a voice talking with myself. Reflecting on everything. Thinking about the past, the future.

On the right drugs I can silence that voice and just let stuff happen. It's a very surreal, liberating, but also somewhat frightening experience since it's not what I'm used to. But I can see the draw, I certainly get a lot more done and have a lot of fun that way.

It's like watching a movie. But it's your life playing out before you. And apparently a lot of people are kind of just running on instinct and their base programming. It's pure deterministic behavior.

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FrogsEverywhere OP t1_izhw6hn wrote

Yeah come to think of it mushrooms turn off my inner voice, I've never been able to put my finger on why it's so incredibly liberating but that's got to be part of it. That's wild. Now I'm going to think about that next time.

I wonder if neurosis and inner monologues are correlated.

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Drakolyik t1_izi1n38 wrote

Well I'm on the schizophrenic spectrum (officially bipolar with psychosis and both visual/auditory hallucinations) if that helps any. Super strong with the neuroses am I. I'm able to manage my symptoms now that I'm fully self-aware of it but oh man was it difficult before I got a handle on it.

I've also done a shitload of psychedelics. Oh the crazy things I've seen and oh the euphoria and sheer terror I've witnessed. Beautiful and grotesque. Awe-inspiring and humbling.

MDMA, Shrooms, LSD, and DMT all turn off my inner monologue. What comes out is my most inner self, and she's a real crazy whirlwind of weird and awesome. She doesn't know the laws of physics or human culture very well, so she gets into trouble. It's like unleashing a being that's only ever existed in a purely simulated internal world that has no constraints at all and is suddenly in a world with constraints. She often forgets she inhabits a human body and that not everyone is so pleasure driven.

Anyway..

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FrogsEverywhere OP t1_izi2sjz wrote

Mdma and k make my inner monologue become... Outer. But psychedelics really free me. I was always afraid to lose control so I avoided them for years and years, and then just finally letting go, throwing yourself into the chaos and the beauty. I wish everyone could experience it, the world would be better. I truly believe there is a secret world full of truths that you can explore, and maybe even map, but certainly learn a lot from. Looking at a normal piece of cloth and seeing a trillion sparkling fractals in every thread, it's like... The limited version of the world we are stuck in being peeled away and getting a glimpse of.. something.

I wouldn't say a new person comes out in these moments but I would say the best possible and healthy version of me does.

I had a good friend who had schizophrenia and drugs would really send him off the edge and he would end up in jail over and over for just being so careless. He ended up getting locked up for a long time and that was the last I saw him, I moved very far away to start over. We tried to help him keep sober but it was like a force of nature. I hope you can find a happy balance fellow traveler.

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Spiritual_Ad5414 t1_izi6y5z wrote

That's a very interesting view. I don't have an internal monologue and I have aphantasia. I'm very zen indeed, living in the moment and not overthinking things.

My fiancée on the other hand is pretty neurotic and has both internal monologue and can imagine things in her head. I have never wondered before whether these things are related.

Interestingly when I'm on psychedelics I do get some CEV, maybe not very vivid, but still, and while I wouldn't call it a full blown monologue, I do comment things in my head a lot when tripping.

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MrRogersRulz t1_izih5w8 wrote

First, thanks for the response.

That's freaking insane. I been alive a long time and I just assumed everyone had this audible soundtrack that narrated everything about their lives.

I'm going to have to find some stuff to read about it. But, I'll ask what I'm thinking. Is this variable given any significance whether a person is of one variety or the other?

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you_are_stupid666 t1_iziepfo wrote

A majority? You sure about that categorization?

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joekak t1_izitmn2 wrote

Not at all, just from what I gather from what I linked above. I've had an interest in psychology but never really studied it, I only found out about this from a "Personalities in the Workplace," class that turned into a "Buy my $95 Book."

Libraries are free mf

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