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ForHidingSquirrels OP t1_j5qk5xz wrote

I’m still not sold on hydrogen being used for electricity or heating, but long distance trucking maybe. Definitely things like fertilizer, and industrial uses. I’m not certain who odd buying this hydrogen, so can’t secular there yet. But it’s in Lancaster which has a lot of industry, and it’s very near farm stuff too.

This project will be incentivized by the Inflation Reduction Act.

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bubba-yo t1_j5rq6eu wrote

UC Irvine has been supplementing its campus power generation using green hydrogen for about 6 years now. They got approval to expand that throughout the campus gas infrastructure and are implementing it now.

Now, there's a few ways this can be used. The campus has something over 4MW of solar installed, and has on-site electrolysis facilities to convert excess into hydrogen. That can simply be pushed into the gas pipeline and burned as part of existing boiler operations. The hydrogen burns more cleanly than natural gas and increases the overall efficiency of the system, though there is still some carbon emissions this way. The pipeline also serves as a form of storage. Ideally you put the hydrogen into on-site fuel cells for power generation, and that too is happening, with only surplus from that operation (and from the on-campus hydrogen fueling station) being added to the natural gas feed. The campus also has things like large scale thermal storage so boiler operations that benefit from solar peak energy can be averaged into non-solar generation hours, etc.

There's a fair bit of industrial scale fuel cell out there, so there is demand. Companies like Apple and Google power their data centers off of solar + fuel cell, often using biofuel. Those fuel cells are largely identical to those that can operate off of hydrogen. So there is production capacity out there and I can see many of the manufacturing or distribution in that area being converted to that.

The question is how will that hydrogen be transported. Are they injecting into the large gas pipelines in the state, is it going into yet to be built dedicated hydrogen pipelines (we have some in CA, but none near Lancaster to my knowledge) or in some other way - such as solid state hydrogen storage from any of the companies working on that?

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planko13 t1_j5roga6 wrote

Agreed, hydrogen actually fills a really sketchy gap (industrial feedstock) in a fossil fuel free modern society. However, as long as we continue to not price carbon release in the atmosphere, the economics will require heavy subsidies. This plant is really only useful for proof of concept.

Its really kinda stupid for energy production though.

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dontpet t1_j5sqn9a wrote

I thought hydrogen with renewables is meant to get cheap enough to outdo conventional hydrogen. Headlines have been saying 2030 2035, without subsidies.

With the current range of American subsidies one informed podcaster said that hydrogen will cost $0 in a couple of years. I can imagine that being unpopular!

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CriticalUnit t1_j5taual wrote

> one informed podcaster said that hydrogen will cost $0 in a couple of years.

  1. This is not accurate.

  2. Delivery costs are also high, meaning even if it was 'free' to produce it would still be expensive to use.

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dontpet t1_j5ueh2p wrote

1 was Shayle Kann, doing the Katalyst podcast. I was taken aback when he said that, so I hope he covers what he meant in a coming episode.

2- both conventional and green hydrogen have to be transported.

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CriticalUnit t1_j5xrt4j wrote

  1. He's incorrect

  2. Conventional hydrogen also isn't cheap

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TotallyInOverMyHead t1_j5vlweq wrote

I think it may be easier/cheaper /ecologically more beneficial to store hydrogen than electricity long term.

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Bewaretheicespiders t1_j5qr684 wrote

You'ld be better off making methane of a number of other fuels. People are pumping hydrogen to create an infrastructure and a market that will be fulfilled by dirty hydrogen surplus from gas extraction.

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netz_pirat t1_j5sucaa wrote

If you want to make methane, you'll need hydrogen as a precursor anyway.

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Bewaretheicespiders t1_j5ubk6y wrote

But you should make it at the same facility as you make methane, not store and transport it with at huge losses.

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