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anymorenevermore t1_j0s83sw wrote

Sure , go to mastodon and reach 0.01% of the audience.

The Machine Learning "Community" have lots of people earning hundred of thousand of dollars working for Zuckerberg, (and Musk too btw) any moral qualms they might have, have been buried a long time ago in favor of money.

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Holyragumuffin t1_j0t6chf wrote

I would bet 0.01% is an underestimate.

At least among the faculty, PhDs, grad students, and developers I follow in ML/neuroscience, about 15-20% are on Mastadon.

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[deleted] t1_j0uhggt wrote

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10BillionDreams t1_j0wdw6b wrote

They didn't say "15-20% of ML Twitter", they said "15-20% of the ML people I follow on Twitter". Migrations to different platforms have their own sort of network effects, so anyone active on Mastodon probably has an above average share of their Twitter circle also active on Mastodon.

In terms of the overall share of ML Twitter, the only claim was "greater than 0.01%".

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anymorenevermore t1_j0ucg10 wrote

You cannot even spell correctly the name, that tells you everything about its popularity

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Holyragumuffin t1_j12gwjm wrote

😂 Yes, we all know that spelling has a huge bearing on an argument's validity.

.. You must not read many academic papers.

Spoiler alert: many science papers have typos

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retard-moron t1_j0t3sr6 wrote

Something tells me you're not actually in the machine learning community if you think the small number of researchers at facebook and tesla are representative of the community at large lol.

Can you name an actually prominent researcher from either of those companies? There's yann at Facebook of course, who has definitely had impact in popularizing convnets and applications, but has effectively zero novel contributions of his own

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JustOneAvailableName t1_j0titk8 wrote

FAIR is only behind Google/Microsoft and one of the bigger players in AI research

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retard-moron t1_j0uex03 wrote

Simply not true, the gap between fair and msr, brain, and deepmind is massive. I'm sure fair has had some engineering success, but their research output is very weak compared to other labs

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JustOneAvailableName t1_j0uj1ee wrote

I based my answer on the 2020 and 2021 Neurips papers by institution. Couldn't find data of 2022. Anyways, Wav2vec was a huge paper for me and basically what I worked on for a large part of the past 2 years. And they were the maintainer of PyTorch and still carry the bulk of the work.

I really don't get how you can disregard FB as nearly zero influence on ML

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BossOfTheGame t1_j0uajdu wrote

Sounds like you can reach the right 0.01% of the audience then. The ones who still have their ethics in tact.

And for what it's worth, the applications for Zuck and Musk do have social good, even if it is a gray area. Remember, Facebook brought us torch as open source software.

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anymorenevermore t1_j0ucbyp wrote

> And for what it's worth, the applications for Zuck and Musk do have social good, even if it is a gray area. Remember, Facebook brought us torch as open source software.

It seems you wont be in Mastodon then, lol

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BossOfTheGame t1_j0wkr0w wrote

I absolutely made a mastodon account. I think Musk is off his rocker right now. It's made the weaknesses of a centralized forum clear. Mastodon isn't perfect, lots of improvements to make, but it lies on a much more solid decentralized foundation. But I'm also hedging my bets. I still have my Twitter account. Life's too complex to be absolutist about anything. Life, like computer science, is all about finding the right trade-offs.

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[deleted] t1_j0uhpp5 wrote

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WokeAssBaller t1_j0w4tn2 wrote

Right, what China is doing is about a million times worse than Elon but I’m sure the virtue signaling won’t go there

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BossOfTheGame t1_j0wk7nk wrote

Voicing that you're upset about virtue signaling is virtue signaling. Just want to make that hypocrisy clear.

But while I'm here, I'll acknowledge where you are correct. The authoritarian government in China is committing genocide. Not really sure what your point is.

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WokeAssBaller t1_j0wlgfj wrote

Ah so there is no way to criticize virtue signaling without you yourself virtue signaling.

Thanks for the dumb comment of the day

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BossOfTheGame t1_j0wmvrm wrote

Yeah basically, because criticizing virtue signaling IS dumb.

You can't criticize someone for expressing what they believe. That's ridiculous.

You criticize someone for the belief. You tell them why what they believe is wrong, not that the expression itself is wrong.

Note, I wasn't saying you were wrong to virtue signal. I was just telling you that criticizing it is literally self-contradictory. It doesn't leave any room open for discussion, you're basically just telling someone to shut up. While you can do that, don't trick yourself into thinking that you're saying anything of value.

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WokeAssBaller t1_j0wo4yt wrote

Such an insane point of view, yeah you can’t criticize virtue signaling without virtue signaling….

Again the dumbest thing I’ve seen on Reddit today and that says a lot.

Try and use common sense rather than arguing yourself in a circle

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BossOfTheGame t1_j0xe0q1 wrote

Are you not signaling something that you value?

  • You think that it's bad character to express a believe that demonstrates one's own good character or moral superiority.

  • Someone expresses a belief that they believe demonstrates good character.

  • You expressed an opinion and deride them by calling what they did virtue signaling.

  • This serves to signal to other like-minded folks of your own good character or moral superiority.

Oh wait, does it only count if it's an opinion you disagree with? Oh ok... well you probably don't think of it like that... you wouldn't be able to feel superior and like you could call someone stupid if it was like that...

Let me sum it up for you with an example:

  • Hypocritical: "Alice expresses to your Bob that people who hang pride flags are assholes because they virtue signal"
  • Consistent: "Alice expresses to your Bob that people who hang pride flags are assholes because it makes her feel uncomfortable" or she thinks it sexualizes the children or some shit like that.

Say what you mean: don't hide behind that "virtue signaling is wrong" crap. If you are doing something that is morally correct, then you should be promoting it. Say why you think whatever they are "virtue signaling" is wrong.

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BossOfTheGame t1_j0wjp8p wrote

I see we're playing this game.

I minimize my fossil fuel usage where possible. For the rest, I estimate my yearly footprint and buy carbon offsets to put myself at net zero. I currently need to only offset 10 more years to put my entire life at net zero.

I do limit my support of unethically produced products. Unfortunately to have access to the field of computing, some concessions need to be made. It's not ideal, but the trade-off is that AI research can help reduce future need for slave labor.

And for what's worth I haven't left Twitter. I've just also joined Mastodon. The vulnerabilities of the centralized nature of Twitter have been made clear recently. I think it's worth shifting to a distributed system.

So here's a question for you: just because life is full of unavoidable gray areas, does that mean you make no effort to be ethical in any area where you have significant degrees of agency?

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TheRealBobbyJones t1_j0tr0w9 wrote

"moral qualms" is a pretty rude thing to say considering that neither Zuckerberg or musk has ever done anything immoral. It's not like they eat babies. They just run their businesses. I should add that any drama related to data, hate speech, or freedom of speech is inevitable considering the business they are in. Show me a popular social media website that didn't have to deal with those kinds of things. I'm pretty certain even myspace caused a ton of drama.

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impossiblefork t1_j0vpz4k wrote

Both have.

Zuckerberg runs Facebook which is one of the big big American ads-and-political-manipulation companies. Companies like Facebook, Reddit etc. actively shape conversations using diverse tools.

Musk is less obviously terrible-- he has a firm which makes electric cars, which is obviously excellent, but he also hypes things in a way that goes a little bit further than is quite reasonable-- whether he's treated Eberhard etc. correctly, that can be debated, but he does seem to have a bit of an anti-worker streak and seems to favour a very productive work culture which unfortunately, if it were made common, would be completely unacceptable-- you'd turn into Japan, and if it continues to be successful and grows, then it will destroy the US workers whose existence currently make it possible-- they'd be like the Dodo.

People can't allowed to choose to work 80 hours a week and spend minimal time with their children, partners or parents, or to be tired during the time they spend with those people.

I think he might also oppose unionization?

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[deleted] t1_j0wqqxr wrote

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impossiblefork t1_j110skf wrote

Many of these things have the potential to in themselves be societal crises, so how it does not it sound particularly bad, I do not understand.

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unholy_sanchit t1_j0u5qmw wrote

You are being down voted but you are absolutely correct.

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