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cjpowers70 t1_jd8ie33 wrote

Reliance on solar power in Maine? This is a real Reddit moment.

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PlentyCommission166 t1_jd8njvy wrote

  1. reliance: no. Supplemental power? Definitely.

  2. in Maine: You know solar panels still work under snow, right?

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Numerous_Vegetable_3 t1_jd8sn9z wrote

Yeah idk why everyone hears solar and instantly jumps to "but RELY on it?? HOW?"

Isn't it possible that... we just collect some cheap, easy power that isn't being used, and lighten the load on other power-generating methods?

People are so tribal when it comes to power generation for no good reason.

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Betty2theWhite t1_jdbjpmk wrote

The problem is solar panels aren't lightening the load. Solar panels work when we have the least amount of load. We'd still need all the other means of energy production for dusk to dawn. And those other means of power can't be shut down by a flip of a switch, and they can only be idled down so far if at all.

Solar is good, but it won't be great until we have energy storage.

So really, how?

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Numerous_Vegetable_3 t1_jddo5er wrote

>it won't be great until we have energy storage

How are we storing the extra energy from coal plants and hydro...? You're acting like energy storage is a problem that popped up when solar was invented. We've been storing power for a long time.

I'll agree that we don't do it efficiently, but we still can.

Several different methods are all combined to keep the power on currently. Do all of the coal plants get shut down when the hydro power is being used..? Why in the world would we need to shut down the other methods with a flip of a switch while using solar...?

Acting like we have zero solutions for power storage and no ability to use different methods simultaneously is ridiculous. Again, you're just coming up with (invalid) reasons because you don't like solar. Every point you made makes no sense.

"It wouldn't lighten the load because we'd have to shut off the other power plants" ... what? No we wouldn't. You can feed more electricity into the grid from other places... you know that right?

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Betty2theWhite t1_jddym9d wrote

>How are we storing the extra energy from coal plants and hydro...? You're acting like energy storage is a problem that popped up when solar was invented. We've been storing power for a long time.

And we have been very bad at it for a long time, to the point where we supplement power storage by also increasing the load to minimize the amount needing to be stored, the problem is the load is already at it's lowest during the output of solar. And if I say that alot, it's because that's the fucking problem.

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>Several different methods are all combined to keep the power on currently. Do all of the coal plants get shut down when the hydro power is being used..? Acting like we have zero solutions for power storage and no ability to use different methods simultaneously is ridiculous.

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No, the method of using multiple different power production means is specifically for this purpose. You have some means that can go on and off easily, you have other means that can vary their output, and you have others that cant really be shut off or vary their output but are the most efficient. By stacking all of these on top of each other, we efficiently stabilize the power grid output and load. And when do we shut off or idle down these plants? DURING THE TIME SOLAR IS PRODUCING. (Remember this, its important)

Also we don't use coal in Maine, but natural gas plants do specifically calculate whether or not it's profitabe to run, on a day to day basis, and if it's not they sell of off their leased supply of natural gas. Now if they deem it not profitable to run these plants at all for a long period of time, because solar causes energy cost to go in the negative, because we've had to increase the load to the system to stabilize it, the plants will eventually realize that it's more profitable to sell off their equipment and real estate, and we will have no means of combating load surges. (This is called capitalism, it's not great, but it is what we have to consider during these decisions)

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> Again, you're just coming up with (invalid) reasons because you don't like solar. Every point you made makes no sense.

I love solar, for a plethora of options, some of which I do utilize myself, just not for this particular problem, at this particular point in time. Also I didn't "come up" with these points, I learned them, by reading articles on how to combat climate change because I am passionate about our environmental impact, and through my education and work as an engineer, and by talking with policy makers, consultants, and workers in this exact feild.

NOW listen good and clear on this one. You have a strong reaction to all of this, because you've got rose colored glasses on, and all the red flags just look like flags. But there are a lot of problems with our ability to really utilize solar on this big of a scale at this point. The day will come though, and I'm excited for that, but if we under took a project of this scale right now, we'd cripple our financial ability to do it right when the time came.

Right now isn't the time to lobby the government into funding throwing solar everywhere, for everything. Right now is the time to lobby the government into funding the research we still need to make this dream a reality. The break through we really need is so close, and we can wait for it, or we can reel it in by utilizing government funding and policy making. That's the important place to put the effort right now.

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OurWhoresAreClean t1_jd8r16w wrote

>in Maine: You know solar panels still work under snow, right?

I did not know this, and I'm still not sure I do. Are you saying that they work even with a foot of snow on top of them blocking out the sunlight? Or just that snow tends to melt and slide off of them so it doesn't end up being a big deal?

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PlentyCommission166 t1_jd8wtpc wrote

Everything counts in large amounts. If there's a little snow or it's not completely covered, you still get some power. If they're completely covered by several feet, they don't generate power.

But there's a couple ways they can still work: 1) angled arrays that snow slides off and 2) this neat new idea called a bifacial array. Bottom side collects light scattered off the ground snow and generate power. Top melts faster too because the electricity warms the panel.

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OurWhoresAreClean t1_jd8xxik wrote

>If there's a little snow or it's not completely covered, you still get some power. If they're completely covered by several feet, they don't generate power.

Ok, that's what I figured you meant. Thanks for clarifying.

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thesilversverker t1_jd9c5p8 wrote

It's basically 1/4", stop effective generation in my experience. An inch and it's all ogre.

15° angle and snow stayed on ours for weeks.

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BackItUpWithLinks t1_jd8sooi wrote

> solar panels still work under snow

Not really. Power is generated in the area where the snow slid, not through thick snow.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/let-it-snow-how-solar-panels-can-thrive-winter-weather

> Light is able to forward scatter through a sparse coating, reaching the panel to produce electricity. It's a different story when heavy snow accumulates, which prevents PV panels from generating power. Once the snow starts to slide, though, even if it only slightly exposes the panel, power generation is able to occur again.

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Erin-DidYouFindMe t1_jd8oapg wrote

Solar is still highly effective in Maine, but you're right pointing out the issue that we'll need a specialized trucks (or attachment to plow trucks) to clear snow off various lengths of the solar panel chain after snowstorms. Which is another benefit of adding them to highways where it is much easier to do that.

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Numerous_Vegetable_3 t1_jd8s3bh wrote

They actually still generate power with snow on them, clearing them off wouldn't really be needed.

If they're set up with a steep enough angle, it would be hard for snow to accumulate on them anyways.

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tobascodagama t1_jd8vd3j wrote

You'd want them angled to pick up the sun in winter anyway.

Besides, even if you assume zero output from the panels from December to March, you're still getting a benefit the other eight months of the year...

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MapoTofuWithRice t1_jd8xnvn wrote

Solar power is Germanys fastest growing power sector.

Maine gets 33% more sun than Germany does on any given year.

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