Comments
itasteminty t1_iqvxoby wrote
Just remember, this is the same group that has now sued themselves half a dozen times over the election laws that they themselves had passed due to it not having their expected outcome.
They are suing because changing the law requires more than just a straight majority vote, and they don't have a supermajority in PA, so basically they don't have enough votes to just "change the law" again. So, their argument has been that they passed an unconstitutional law, and have been trying to use the courts to overturn the law they passed. So far, they have lost every legal challenge, Unfortunately we, the tax payers, are paying the bill for this idiocracy.
reverendsteveii t1_iqvxjjl wrote
I think you understand exactly why Republicans are looking for reasons to reject individual ballots. It's part of a larger effort by them to find a way to reject the concept of voting overall.
Disgruntled_Viking t1_iqw8hxs wrote
A scary percentage of them are just fine with someone who openly said he can just decertify election machines whenever he wants if he is governor.
SnooRevelations9889 t1_iqy0oe9 wrote
They (successfully) discourage their voters from voting by mail, then they try to reject as many vote-by-mail ballots as possible. The disenfranchise some of their own voters, but come out ahead.
That said: Please go ahead and vote by mail if that' s convenient for your.
Statistically, the number of ballots the R's can get thrown out are smaller than the number of people who wouldn't make it to the polls on election day, if they'd decided to vote in person.
randompittuser t1_iqy4fn2 wrote
Oh I’m sure why Republicans are doing it. Because their party is falling apart, and left to a majority vote, PA would be blue.
NewAlexandria t1_iqvvy1m wrote
PA's mail ballot system is horrible broken. A piece of mail goes to an address, and you sign it and then send it back as your proof of identity.
That's tragically easy to fake en-masse.
I shudder thinking that this was our mail-in ballot security for the past election, and that anyone defended this.
You should be worried about shitty people faking your ballot! GOP! Russia! Whoever you're worried about, in PA, they can bulk-fake votes.
Demand a secure process. Ballots are no longer a place for the honor system.
djarvis77 t1_iqw0je6 wrote
It is not that easy to sign up.
It is not broken.
They can not "bulk-fake votes".
If you could prove any of these things you would have sources. And others attacking mail-in would have sources. You don't, they don't...because there are no sources that verify or prove any of your claims.
[deleted] t1_iqwk91o wrote
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NewAlexandria t1_iqw0nmz wrote
ITT: seething over reality.
turbodsm t1_iqw4wtr wrote
I think you think Mail in voting is new. Yet, other states have been doing this for decades at a much larger scale. Still waiting on the evidence that it's fraudulent.
NewAlexandria t1_iqw1k3f wrote
People don't like to hear about risks because the reality and consequences of those risks means something they cannot cope with.
turbodsm t1_iqw4xz8 wrote
Driving is pretty risky too.
NewAlexandria t1_iqw5rmv wrote
sounds like stinky threat-talk
if a real 'argument', it's a red herring regardless, as individual casualty does not risk the electoral process
AnxiousCat9782 t1_iqxsicy wrote
Republicans don't like to hear about mail in voting because trump said baaad! They can't cope if someone disagrees with the cult master. I introduced trump because the repub legislature thought is was just fine until he cried cheating! Cope.
NewAlexandria t1_ir0j83w wrote
I've been complaining about this for a couple decades, including and before the hanging chads. I'm anti-corruption, which sadly doesn't often give me the chance to plainly support any one party consistently. I'd need a military job if people want me to turn a blind eye to political corruption
discogeek t1_iqw0uyp wrote
>PA's mail ballot system is horrible broken. A piece of mail goes to an address, and you sign it and then send it back as your proof of identity.
This is incorrect. The voter's identity was already checked when they submitted their registration to vote. Pennsylvania does not require ID checks except the first time voting at a new location. The DoS and PennDOT and county boards of elections also have a system in place to check the ID already issued, as we aren't incompetent enough to suggest that only the physical card in your wallet is the only way the state can confirm your identity.
This argument is false and a red herring. There is nothing wrong with our mail ballot system except that it throws irrelevant barriers between people and their vote.
NewAlexandria t1_iqw23ur wrote
None of that relates to the problem described. Stop and accept that reality is different.
It exemplifies how so many people have been confused on this issue.
I know someone that just moved into the state. They were sent a mail-in ballot registration. All they have to do is write their signature and send it back.
DL / SSN-last-4 are not trivial to get, but they're available to 'hackers.'
This is not security
discogeek t1_iqx97uu wrote
Just because you can make up scenarios in your mind doesn't mean it's reality.
What in the fucking world makes you think Harrisburg doesn't have access to your ID without you showing the physical card? They issued it, they have all the information on your application, they have your photo on file.
You're just making up bullshit to make a problem where there isn't one. All the information on the mail in ballot is simply to make things easier, Pennsylvania isn't a third world banana republic (although you may want to make it one) where any fake person can vote.
Get a grip on reality, you're not living in it.
NewAlexandria t1_ir0itic wrote
You clearly are not a security professional, nor have ever been near the space.
chaqalaqalaqa t1_iqwpty6 wrote
To get one you have to sign up through a state website that verifies you based off of your social and drivers license or ID number.
How is that not as secure as some old person checking your signature when you vote ?
NewAlexandria t1_iqx1ggs wrote
You probably registered at some other time? That is not when my friend had to do upon moving.
also, the paper form, only asks for last-4 of the social, + DL number. That data is out there is some wants to buy it from the dark web. So that's how it's not secure enough, as compared to an in-person visit, or a live/video proof or credentials.
chaqalaqalaqa t1_iqx2z3r wrote
I just moved and has to re-register. Stop making stuff up.
And there’s no more secure system in the US. Socials are the closest we have to an identifier. What would your solution be?
Dr_Worm88 t1_iqxof4s wrote
I would like you to in great detail explain to me exactly how this will actually happen, please educate us all.
NewAlexandria t1_ir0jcte wrote
It's not a good faith request. You don't deserve new time.
You'll have to go reading through my comment history to find where I've answered similar in the past.
Dr_Worm88 t1_ir0rjse wrote
I couldn’t find it. I found vague postings but nothing explaining exactly how you would mass fraudulently vote.
But you presented an argument without evidence and it can be dismissed without evidence.
Glad we cleared this up.
NewAlexandria t1_ir3dhfr wrote
shallow search. predictable. someone who took the wormpill and wormed?
Dr_Worm88 t1_ir3ioqn wrote
Coming from someone refusing to substantiate a claim.
Typical smooth brain.
sweedishchef8286 t1_iqxh3op wrote
You can sign in, but you also have to hope they don't compare signatures, the person you are trying to vote for already voted by mail or a number of other possibilities that would simply catch them.
NewAlexandria t1_ir0irbt wrote
I'm sure you already see that there would be a great many people that wouldn't have, or whose signatures could be so shakey that you could not be sure. Easier to fake if those were older people that have a known predisposition to lose motor skills due to geriatric diseases.
This security hole just writes itself. It's not hard. I've been complaining about these security issues for a long time, way before this election, and way before Bush's hanging-chads
VenomB t1_iqvyb04 wrote
I'll never understand how people can't figure out how security holes work. It doesn't matter if it is abused or not, the fact remains that the procedure is insecure and there are far too many hands touching everything.
Mail-in is insecure, its fact. Compared to putting your vote down and submitting your ballot at the voting site yourself, its just a huge open hole security-wise. Calling it the honor system is perfect because it relies on assuming nobody would break the law or try to cheat. That's now how it should work. Nobody should even be able to. Otherwise, its just not secure.
djarvis77 t1_iqw06yg wrote
> Mail-in is insecure, its fact.
Prove it.
NewAlexandria t1_iqw0xf5 wrote
proof by gestalt: if there was not actually an issue, there would be no basis for so many people to raise outcry. Lying/deluded people would have had other people tell them 'shut up idiot' before the numbers got this big.
Note: this isn't an actual proof. You're just have problems and you want the internet to therapy/educate you
alaska1415 t1_iqy5zkb wrote
You have to be a troll. That lots of dipshits are in a lather over something they don’t understand does not make it an issue.
That so many people are primed to believe that the ONLY way they could lose was by fraud is the reason so many beloved this.
[deleted] t1_ir0be2o wrote
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[deleted] t1_ir0k1bt wrote
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NewAlexandria t1_ir0k523 wrote
> I've been complaining about this for a couple decades, including and before the hanging chads. I'm anti-corruption, which sadly doesn't often give me the chance to plainly support any one party consistently.
alaska1415 t1_ir1ho33 wrote
You’ve been complaining about nonsense for decades? Cool.
VenomB t1_iqw369g wrote
When you submit your ballot at the machine, its at the point of counting and should have no time or chance for other people to even touch it until its counted.
When you submit your ballot via mail, that ballot enters the mail system and follows a procedure that involves other people with access to manipulation or removal. Its really not that damn hard to figure out.
What path does the ballot take? If it isn't directly to a point where nobody but the submitter touches it, then its already insecure. That's how security works.
alaska1415 t1_iqy5tot wrote
Ok then, count them when they’re received. Nothing about mail in voting requires they be stored for some amount of time.
Alternative-Flan2869 t1_iqvjqbe wrote
I call BS on republicans AGAIN. Essentially they want all citizens of all 67 counties to equally LOSE their vote over a “senior moment.” Instead, why not sue to have ALL counties required to notify citizens who forgot some minor administrative detail instead and give them ALL a chance to fix that? Or does that sound too much like democracy for republicans?
snuffy_tentpeg t1_iqvfcjj wrote
We're contacting you about a minor error on your mail-in ballot.
After reviewing your ballot, the review board determined that you selected the incorrect candidate.
Please edit your selection and resubmit your vote for further review.
We'll keep counting until we get the totals right.
turbodsm t1_iqvtxks wrote
No need. The PA GOP will just select alternate electors.
NewAlexandria t1_iqvw6om wrote
literally anyone can, for you. Anyone can send a mail-in ballot registration for your name. When yours + the fake one is mailed at election time, they have to throw out both, or decide which one they think is authentic. Those nuances will be easier to forge, or be used in the mechanics of vote fraud.
turbodsm t1_iqvwmux wrote
They have to know my DL # and social.
How many instances like this happened last year? For sure it would be spread far and wide by election deniers.
Provisional ballots are thoroughly investigated and cleared. Almost all "They voted for me" cases were with people with the same names.
NewAlexandria t1_iqw16ns wrote
That's not how security works.
You're saying it's hard.
That's not security.
you're saying that the investigations that happened (could have missed some/many), that you heard of (ditto), did not report a problem.
That's not security
itasteminty t1_iqvwrnf wrote
That would be a scandal, since according to law ballots are not allowed to be opened before a specific time on the day of the election. So, any ballots that are opened before that day would be a problem.
snuffy_tentpeg t1_iqw5kyy wrote
[deleted] t1_iqvjw83 wrote
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[deleted] t1_iqvm85s wrote
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Ifoughtallama t1_iqxtshl wrote
Sounds about right lol
reverendsteveii t1_iqvxfco wrote
Republicans are simply against voting. Whether they're running ad campaigns whose sole purpose is getting voters to stay home, casting fake doubts about election integrity, trying to make it harder for individuals to vote, mass purging eligible voters from the rolls or endorsing a wacky theory that says that state legislatures can simply ignore the popular vote and pick the president with no recourse for the citizens whose voice was stolen, Republicans hate voting because what they want to do is really unpopular and if people vote, Republicans lose.
cpr4life8 t1_iqxdetc wrote
There are multiple examples of Republicans stating that they don't want too many people voting or they only want the "right people" voting.
Time-U-1 t1_iqww9ki wrote
I can understand their sentiment that voters should be treated fairly across the state. But Republicans seem to want mailed ballots to be treated differently than in person ballots.
When voting in person, if your ballot has errors it will not be read by the machine when you submit it. In that case you are given the opportunity to get a new ballot and redo your ballot.
I wonder how Republicans would like it if their ballot was trashed because of a stupid mistake? I doubt they would like that very much.
all4whatnot t1_iqvgcea wrote
Narrator: But they won't
itasteminty t1_iqvw8nw wrote
This was a lawsuit over the ballot-cure process for mail-in ballots that, for whatever reason, were deemed "tainted" and unable to be counted by law.
FWIW: In PA, the current mail-in law requires you to fill out your ballot, place the ballot inside of an inner secrecy envelope. You are not allowed to place ANY marks on the inner secrecy envelope. Place that envelope inside of an outer return envelope and sign the declaration on the outer envelope, and return the ballot. Click HERE for the official instructions on the PA voting website.
The ballots are received, outer envelope scanned, you get a notification that your ballot was received, and the secrecy envelope and ballot placed in a bin to be counted election day. (Ballots can only be opened on election day, and cannot be pre-counted, according to PA Law.)
So, issues that came up in the past:
- This procedure was different than in past years, so people were erroneously signing the inner envelope. Other times, they would only send the ballot in the outer envelope, or just the inner envelope (making the ballot non-countable)
- Due to the thickness, ballots were getting snagged in the USPS mail sorting equipment, ripping the outer return envelope, sometimes even the inner secrecy envelope.
- PA made the Secrecy and Mailing envelopes very close in size, so sometimes at the voting office in opening the outer envelope, they would snag the inner envelope and taint the seal on the secrecy envelope.
In any of these cases (and some others), the voting office could notify you that there is something wrong with your ballot, and you could go to the voting office, with your ID, and claim your ballot, "cure" the issue and re-submit it for processing.
It is the ballot "cure" process that they decided was somehow unfair and decided to sue over. The result of this ruling means they can continue the process as it exists.
all4whatnot t1_iqwd6mm wrote
"Could notify you"
If I recall, there were counties that just remove them. There was no attempt to cure. But I could be wrong, this is just my recollection from the election 2 years ago.
itasteminty t1_iqyh5d5 wrote
That is correct. But, to me I would complain to them to get them to also cure ballots, not eliminate votes. But that's just me. Fortunately I live in an area that, surprisingly has the ballot cure process available. That said, I am planning to vote in person, so it's a moot point for me, but may benefit others.
[deleted] t1_iqvmijx wrote
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Reynard1981 t1_iqy9p8n wrote
Ah yea, mass mail in ballots. Cheating at its finest and that the only way democrats can “win” an election.
catgoesmeow22 t1_iqwcgzl wrote
Yeah they will help them fill in the (D) bubble I'm sure.
gdex86 OP t1_iqwcmn5 wrote
Wow an unfounded claim of voter fraud.
discogeek t1_iqvs06x wrote
Voting shouldn't be a "gotcha" game, not sure why Republicans are arguing we should look for reasons to reject ballots (other than the obvious "reject ballots from areas that have people that don't look like me").