Comments
YourFriendNoo t1_ituyhyw wrote
Always remember studies found it was cheaper for taxpayers to house the unhomed than it was to provide services for the unhoused population.
Homelessness is the more expensive option for society.
In the US, we maintain a large homeless population as a threat to the working class, that should they ever stop being productive, they will be discarded.
Hating the homeless is part of capitalist propoganda, as the worst thing for capitalism is people that aren't productive enough.
limeyhoney t1_itv4eu2 wrote
So you can plop homeless people into a home. Now they aren’t homeless. Does that solve the issue they have? Will they be able to maintain that home?
fhjuyrc t1_itv6xzu wrote
I’m going to speculate that a system which houses the homeless will also have good mental health care, reintegration services, and social assistance for its people.
Otherwise we’d be guilty of argumentum ad absurdam, aka leaping to the worst-case scenario.
fhjuyrc t1_itv7a5i wrote
I’m assuming you don’t mean to suggest people will default to homelessness unless it’s made unbearably awful.
lanky_planky t1_itv7e3s wrote
Makes sense. The basis of hatred or anger is fear. So, despising the homeless is really the manifestation of the fear of one becoming homeless.
tristenjpl t1_itv7wjk wrote
I don't hate the homeless. I feel bad for them. But I'm not constantly harassed by people living one paycheck away from being homeless every time I go into town.
iamwizzerd t1_itv8t0m wrote
Ye seems to work well in finland
Null_Voider t1_itv99sd wrote
We’re trained that way by the media from birth. If we helped them, we’d be able to help ourselves and each other, and become better citizens. But capitalism needs a class of people to always despise the class beneath them to keep the cycle going…
tommytizzel t1_itvau9c wrote
I think it's more because a majority of the homeless are homeless because of mental health issues. And I don't think most people hate the homeless. But are just weary because of the reason I gave above.
hawkwings t1_itvbamg wrote
If you offer free housing, a bunch of non-homeless people will apply for it. Many adults live with their parents. If you bought a farm and built a giant apartment complex, they would have homes, but they would be away from support services and jobs. Increasing the population of the exurbs increases the need for roads.
Many people don't despise the homeless; they just want them someplace else. I think that we need to reduce immigration -- both legal and illegal. If you build enough houses for everyone and stop population growth, then you can solve the housing shortage issue. If you increase the population, you have to build both more houses and more roads.
grilledscheese t1_itvbys7 wrote
it is called housing first, the idea is that a home is the anchor they need for all the other help to stick, and it drastically reduces the cost of providing services to them overall
Superman246o1 t1_itvbytb wrote
We hate those who remind us about what we dislike in our own lives.
TonnelSneksRool t1_itvclrt wrote
Considering the primary issue of homelessness is just that -- homelessness, yes it would solve that problem. Why are we asking if they can naintain that home when we don't ask that of the currently housed? Maybe if we let go of this rat race of capitalism we're all in, we could move to help folks (of all social classes) with honemaking.
TwoSecsTed0 t1_itvd1jh wrote
People despise the homeless because they assume they are mentally ill or drug addicts, which - while unfair - is usually based on their own experiences and will be difficult to combat.
If you've never had a crazy homeless dude harass you or you've never come across the "leftovers" of a night on heroin (aka: dirty needles and the most unhealthy looking faeces you've ever seen), you either don't live in an urban centre or you don't touch grass.
DorTheDoorMan t1_itvd2lq wrote
People hate homeless because they are disgusting, drugged, drunk, and poor- and we all hate poor people.
OneTreePhil t1_itvd2uf wrote
Or what we fear
watermelonsugar888 t1_itvd8r5 wrote
Have you ever spent a significant amount of time in a city with a big homeless population? It’s a problem, not because people are down on their luck, but because they’re drugged out of their minds. They harass passers by, sh*t in the streets, yell at things that aren’t there, and argue with themselves. They’re dirty and unpredictable. It’s truly scary being near them because you don’t know what they’ll do next.
I live in a city with this problem and it seems like there’s no end in sight. Everyone I’ve talked to understands that sh*t happens and you can temporarily go homeless. The thing that causes people to turn to walking zombies is something else.
nanoinfinity t1_itvdf5v wrote
Yea… I don’t hate people for being poor; I hate thieves, vandals, aggressive and violent people, people who piss and shit in public, and people who leave drug paraphernalia in public spaces.
I’m not “only one paycheque away” from becoming an aggressive drug user, passed out in the sidewalk in the middle of the day. If I lost my house, I’d have plenty of other options before that.
And yes, clearly the people who do these unpleasant things have severe mental health issues. But unless they’re willing to be institutionalized to get the intensive care they need, there’s little we can do besides trying to reduce their impact on the rest of society.
could_use_a_snack t1_itvdo3x wrote
Homelessness is the default. Before people were people they were homeless, living wherever, eating whatever, etc. Once people started manipulating their environment they realized that they could build shelter with "work" and work became the go to lifestyle of people. Now we've been a working people for so long that homelessness seems like a failure. If people stop "working" they will eventually become homeless again.
Cytorath t1_itvebb4 wrote
I do not despise the homeless. I despise some of their actions. You want to dig through my dumpster, cool deal. At least have the fucking courtesy to not leave trash thrown all over the dumpster pad and cross the god damn road in the crosswalks. Also, the sidewalk is perfectly fine and intended to walk on, udont need to be in the middle of a lane taking a leisurley stroll...
Ohjay1982 t1_itveuu7 wrote
It’s kind of funny, same thing with crime. Many people support heavy handed punishment for criminals yet don’t want to provide poverty social services that would reduce the need for criminal activity. In Canada the average price for a year of incarceration is upwards of 40k per year. If you had provided even 25k in assistance to that person there is a high likely-hood that many of the the “criminals” wouldn’t have had to resort to crime in the first place.
[deleted] t1_itvfoue wrote
WafflesRearEnd t1_itvg7nu wrote
When I was homeless 5 years ago, finding a home was absolutely step one. After I had somewhere to keep what few belongings I had and to shower, and keep food without risk of spoiling, I could focus on step 2. Next I was able to use my address to get a job and get into outpatient rehab for my poly addiction. Without having to spend every dollar on heroin and meth while I held down a job I was able to save for my own place which took about 4 months for me. It’s was a very rough road but getting rent free housing for awhile was crucial to allow me to get my life back. The house alone didn’t solve all my problems but I wouldn’t have been successful without it.
hishiron_ t1_itvgheg wrote
No idea if you're right or wrong but you sound like a lunatic
vegastar7 t1_itvgpyb wrote
I disagree. I think many people can empathize with the homeless, but we’re not out there hugging them for a couple of reasons. The “stereotypical” homeless person is someone who either has mental problems or substance-abuse problem (or both), and who literally lives on the street, and therefore has no easy access to toilets and showers. Just being dirty is going to repulse people, even if that dirty person owned a home. And having a bunch of drug addicts or mentally unwell people camping in the streets isn’t very safe.
ocelotrevs t1_itvgqk4 wrote
I'm glad I don't. I saw a homeless dude sleeping in our communal bins one winter. It was absolutely freezing (UK), and he looked like he thought I was going to tell him off. I told him it was fine. Grabbed some snacks from my car, and gave them to him.
If you're sleeping in a bin storage area, you just want a place to get your head down.
I understand it.
Facist_Canadian t1_itvgyd0 wrote
You mean like welfare, medicaid, section 8 housing, and more?
BasedErebus t1_itvh0tp wrote
This is a byproduct of a shit mental health system. They used to have asylums, now they're literally on the streets
smashin_blumpkin t1_itvhbnb wrote
The fact that it works in one place doesn't mean it will work in a different place
Seattleisonfire t1_itvhfn3 wrote
>Always remember studies found it was cheaper for taxpayers to house the unhomed than it was to provide services for the unhoused population.
You think you can just unconditionally give a homeless junkie a house (which they will destroy) and they won't need any services? Get real.
It's a lot cheaper to offer them shelter than a home. Even a jail cell costs a fraction of a home, they get fed, and it removes them from society so we don't continue to get victimized by their bullshit. In California it's costing somewhere around $700K to $800K to give these derelicts a home. You really think that's a good use of our money?
YourFriendNoo t1_itvhz2i wrote
Maintaining a homeless population IS more expensive.
If it's not saving money to leave people on the streets instead of house them, you tell me why we're doing it.
We are paying EXTRA to keep people homeless. There's got to be some reason.
Ohjay1982 t1_itvi25i wrote
Yes, the same people that complain about crime will also complain that we spend too much on services like those and think people should make it on their own like they supposedly did. There is a significant population of people that would outright cut those programs not realizing how big of an effect they have.
LareMare t1_itviszk wrote
That's the first step, and from there you can help them with getting their life back on track.
Garconcl t1_itvj16a wrote
Holy crap, the amount of socio-economical hate in this thread...
People don't hate the homeless, they feel guilty and the best way to deal with something that makes you feel bad is to reject them, for example let's say you buy something you really wanted in Christmas, and you see a homeless person, but you don't have more money to help them, you aren't going to change the thing you bought back to help them, but instead you'll ignore them because it is a situation that is unfair to both of you, you did earn the money you spent and you are not to blame for using it, but on the other side the homeless, well most of them, aren't at blame for the situation that they are in.
This also gets worse with time because of the desperation the homeless rightfully feel and how they express them.
And this is also something very USA centric, the country has so much social issues that it's mind blowing to an outsider, you can better see this when immigrants get to the USA, somehow, they manage to get in a better foot than normal citizens while having less access to support systems.
YourFriendNoo t1_itvor95 wrote
>You think you can just unconditionally give a homeless junkie a house (which they will destroy) and they won't need any services? Get real.
No one thinks this.
>It's a lot cheaper to offer them shelter than a home.
Duh. We don't need to buy them single-family homes. We need to house them.
>Even a jail cell costs a fraction of a home, they get fed, and it removes them from society so we don't continue to get victimized by their bullshit.
Dear fuck, do you really think we need to imprison everyone who loses their primary residence?!
>In California it's costing somewhere around $700K to $800K to give these derelicts a home. You really think that's a good use of our money?
While I get that you made this up to imply someone suggested buying them all houses (which no one did), the fact that you think all people without housing are derelicts really says it all anyway.
brickmaster32000 t1_itvs2eq wrote
You say that as if asylums weren't horrific places that abused that population
Seattleisonfire t1_itvxt3u wrote
Well that's what you said:
"Always remember studies found it was cheaper for taxpayers to house the unhomed than it was to provide services for the unhoused population."
Meanwhile, I did NOT say that we need to imprison all of them, or that all homeless are derelicts. I think you know the population I'm talking about here. (Hint: it's not single moms fleeing DV or someone who just lost their job and suddenly can't pay rent.)
And since you claim I "made it up" about California...
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-03-05/lopez-column-hhh-homeless-housing-costs
fhjuyrc t1_itw9b2h wrote
Nothing totally insane about that
BasedErebus t1_itwlo83 wrote
That's a whole separate conversation, but currently there is nowhere people can go for mental health help if they're not capable of functioning in society
brickmaster32000 t1_itwo1zh wrote
I think it is exactly this conversation. If you want to pack up and ship the homeless out of your neighborhood you have a responsibility to do it in a humane way. You can't just send them all to asylums and pretend like what happens there isn't your responsibility when you were the one that wanted to put them there.
Why not just skip the middle man and propose dumping them in the desert? Sure they might all starve and die but thats a different conversation right, so not worth thinking about when proposing these actions.
watermelonsugar888 t1_itxkn0q wrote
So what do you propose?
BasedErebus t1_iu0nkw6 wrote
Thats why an ACTUAL system is needed. They should ideally be rehabilitative and treatment oriented. Something better than screaming at people on the subway or burdening the ER system (I worked as security in a busy city ER for a while)
Showerthoughts_Mod t1_itusr63 wrote
This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.
Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)
Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.