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irony? As the great Alanis once said "Isn't it ironic?". Don't you think?

Weren't all the examples given in that song just coincidences and not actually ironic?

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Irony would be something like building a tree out of cardboard. Just drawing a tree isn't. Why is irony so misunderstood?

I wouldn’t even say they’re situational ironies. Irony is specifically when something is the opposite of what you expect. If someone says they have a fear of public speaking, that sets you up to expect that they would have a very private career. If they then told you that they were a professor for a Freshman class of 200 students, that would be ironic.

A fly in your chardonnay is not opposite to any expectations because the simple act of having a glass of chardonnay doesn’t set up any expectations. You’re not actively expecting there not to be a fly, so if a fly shows up, it’s simply unexpected. And unexpected and ironic are the same.

Lol, building a tree out of cardboard is not irony either.

Sure it is. You build cardboard out of trees. Building a tree out of cardboard could be seen as the opposite of what is expected. Textbook irony.

Tell people to build a fake tree, many will use cardboard. It’s is not the opposite of what you would expect.

And the great Palatine.

"Ironic, isn't it?"

Yea, the most ironic thing about that song was its name.

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Paper comes from trees

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Yes but irony is about the outcome you're addressing being opposed to the common or expected outcome. So what would the opposite of drawing a tree on paper be? We don't usually draw pictures of paper on trees, or trees drawing on...us? Or something like that? There's no opposition to the expected (or even literal) there. Cardboard is made out of Trees, so a tree made out of cardboard is at least conceptually ironic (although not unexpected, it is opposite to the "norm"). I'm not trying to be a Know-it-All dick or anything. It's just such a commonly misunderstood concept....or maybe I'm missing a message here.

no clue what you're on about.

if you'd build a tree out of cardboard because you want to grow apples, but instead it grows pictures of apples on paper, THAT would be ironic.

What?! Ok. So you're arguing that irony has to be some fantastic element? Jesus. Yes, a picture growing cardboard tree...I guess...would also be ironic but it can be much simpler than that. I feel like at this point, though, you're just arguing to be correct, not as part of any reasonable conversation. I think you do know what I was talking about. I made a simple, related example of basic irony and we're both correct, although yours is a little weird but that's fine.

aight you do you then