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Benji_Nottm t1_isgf13r wrote

I'm gay and no, this isn't right. This is a delicate situation that could backfire badly. Faiths have to make such decision alone, and not be bullied into anything.

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dolphins3 OP t1_isgg92o wrote

The CoE isn't just a faith though, it's a government institution, which gives parliament some avenues to enforce oversight, like this.

And homophobia is objectively bad, just like every other moral failure of organized religion lately.

The historical reality is that throughout history, religions often have needed to be "bullied" into doing the moral and truthful thing.

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Dwarf-Lord_Pangolin t1_isgxm16 wrote

Oddly enough, as a Christian I'd disagree in this case. The reason being that the CoE doesn't have anything like the separation of church and state you'd find in the United States: some of the bishops in the CoE automatically have a place in the House of Lords merely by virtue of being bishops (these are called Lords Spiritual). They can't have their cake and eat it.

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Now, if all they wanted to do was articulate a view of human sexuality that holds that the male and female sexes are complementary halves of the divine image that are united in marriage, that's fine -- and if people don't like it, they don't have to join their church. Withholding your church's rites from someone that disagrees with its teachings is indeed distinct from homophobia, which is failing to grant people equal legal rights. (Though as we know, many people have been doing both, sadly). You can't expect people to follow your clubhouse's rules if they aren't members -- but you also can't expect the clubhouse to let you in if you don't want to play by their rules.

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But here's the problem: they're trying to do that while also being basically an extension of the state -- a state, in this case, which holds a very different view of human sexuality, as does much of the populace. Those clubhouses overlap, quite messily. And, again, we know that a lot of them aren't just holding a different view of sexuality -- at least some are also trying to deny people those legal rights, which they have the political oomph to do thanks to the Lords Spiritual. And in this case, the guy mentioned in the article, Bradshaw, is saying that if this disagreement continues, "disestablishment" may have to result -- in other words, severing the link between the government and the church.

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Which, as a Christian -- and ironically an Anglican at that -- is honestly what should be done anyway. I agree strongly that faiths should not be bullied into doing anything, but I also strongly think that any time the church tries to coerce instead of persuade, it is doing wrong -- people shouldn't be bullied into doing anything by faiths, either.

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Extra-Process-9394 t1_isgk1x5 wrote

"I'm gay"

Yeah as a bisexual research scientist I cannot imagine how twisted your brain would have to be to say "it's up to the religion if they want to treat gay people like abominations haha 😊". Bro nah nobody should be home of phobic this take is awful.

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dolphins3 OP t1_isglp8v wrote

Probably LGBT but raised Christian. I was, which is why I stay curious about Christianity related news, but that upbringing definitely fucks you up.

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Benji_Nottm t1_isgvq83 wrote

Why? Because I think religion is BS. They can do what the hell they want. I don't have this urge to make everyone think like I do. We can argue how if it is a sin it's no more grave a sin than adultery and churches aren't supposed to be only accepting the perfect, quite the opposite...But a secular society is about leaving each other alone, not forcing everyone and everything to abide by you. The CofE will catch up in time, bullying them into doing so just give powerful ammunition to nutters on the Right.

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jod125 t1_ishn712 wrote

>But a secular society is about leaving each other alone

The UK is not a secular society. It is a protestant country, hence 'The Church of England'

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dd10101010 t1_isgn7da wrote

Why the quotes? They didn't say that

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Extra-Process-9394 t1_isgvp0k wrote

Either this is the laziest troll or you just cant read. Please feel free to reread.

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dd10101010 t1_isgx0fy wrote

"It's up to the religion...."

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Extra-Process-9394 t1_isgzzvy wrote

Oh I see, you meant the second quotes. You misunderstood me using humor to point out the absurdity of the point they made. Allow me to clarify: I was using humor to point out the absurdity of the point they made.

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Unbroken-anchor t1_isj483b wrote

  1. They’re a state institution so they don’t get to decide their own policy.

  2. If you discriminate against people because of how they’re born then, for me at least, you don’t get to operate in the UK. Whinge and cry all you want but I’d close you down and send you back to the Dark ages where you belong.

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Flullible t1_isj257q wrote

Either you are not gay or you have severe internalized homophobia! Cant believe you are being serious.

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Benji_Nottm t1_isju348 wrote

Forcing religions to appeal to me when not one part of me is religious?Thinking it wrong for Government to force religions into doing things?

That's not internalized homophobia that's being normal.

I don't want no one telling me how to live my life or what to believe, so i think it only fair I treat others the same...I don't have an internal need to control or dictate to people. Leave me alone, and I will leave you alone.

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dolphins3 OP t1_isk2crm wrote

>Forcing religions to appeal to me when not one part of me is religious?Thinking it wrong for Government to force religions into doing things?

I'm not sure how you keep missing this, but the Church of England is not just a religion, it is literally an extension of the government. They automatically get 26 seats in the House of Lords where they vote on legislation. Bishops are approved by a government panel. Parliament already votes on religious matters like approving new editions of the Book of Common Prayer.

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