Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

SilverNicktail t1_ish4e3y wrote

I've got a much better question: why the fuck have we still got a state church that's allowed to speak in Parliament?

92

CannedApples13 t1_isifqb8 wrote

Same reason we have it in the US.

−24

ersatz83 t1_isiprs1 wrote

That's news to me... which denomination would that be? I have a protest to organize.

14

HereOnASphere t1_isiu08e wrote

Southern Bapist

−9

CanIGetAFitness t1_isjsd1j wrote

Can confirm. The Southern Baptists, Pentecostals and Trad Caths are like the dominant motorcycle gangs in their area and get a say in governance.

Various smaller factions orbit around them.

8

sidney_rough_diamond t1_ish8tdd wrote

‘Accept gay people or pay taxes’ would be a better threat

69

TumblingBumbleBee t1_isjqu69 wrote

You have the CofE muddled with America. Here taxes are paid… except for the VAT on doing repairs on listed buildings. Which is fair enough - unless we should give state funding to keeping our historic landscape un-crumbly. Saying that, if they are a state church, they should definitely start marrying couples who live here.

7

sidney_rough_diamond t1_isjtmpl wrote

This is what the googled said ‘oes the Church of England pay tax? They are not classed as businesses and are exempt from paying tax under the Charities Act 2006. Furthermore, as with all charities, they are able to claim back 25% in gift aid from donations’

3

TumblingBumbleBee t1_isk61q0 wrote

You see, when you google you also need to apply critical faculties.

It’s clergy all pay tax, it’s staff all pay tax, tax is payed on the gas burnt in elderly boilers to heat artic medieval buildings, tax is payed on dribble candles and the few things other churches buy (excepting building repairs).

Granted, in the UK charitable status does allow both those that give and the charities that receive to claim back the tax they pay on that amount; which is - admittedly - an interesting mechanism that encourages charitable giving above state support for all our charities as well as supporting charities. Which is why church treasurers often have a slight frazzled look to them.

They should still marry all couples, because it’s the right thing to do, but don’t have a pop at them for tax… they pull their weight in the UK at least as well as businesses.

4

Paid-Not-Payed-Bot t1_isk62qp wrote

> tax is paid on the

FTFY.

Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:

  • Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.

  • Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.

Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.

Beep, boop, I'm a bot

5

mk81 t1_isjwh0d wrote

Now do Islam.

4

dolphins3 OP t1_isk1tka wrote

The UK doesn't have a state mosque like the Church of England.

10

mk81 t1_ismp8s2 wrote

CoE is a walking corpse and they're going for the kill here.

Notice that the UK gov dictates to the Church while flattering Islam and making attempts not to run afoul of its laws.

0

dolphins3 OP t1_ismu7hj wrote

> Notice that the UK gov dictates to the Church while flattering Islam

As I just told you which you ignored for some reason, Parliament gets to dictate to the Church of England because the Church of England is literally a government institution, as opposed to Islam, which has no connection to the government lmao.

3

mk81 t1_itgi069 wrote

Thanks for the details on the de jure laws. Now explain why the gov flatters Islam and makes attempts not to run afoul of its laws.

0

dolphins3 OP t1_ithwj6x wrote

I don't think it really happens and since it has less than nothing to do with the subject of this post I don't think I'm interested in this conversation. If you want to whine about Islam you should go to the DebateReligion subreddit or make your own post.

1

Mythulhu t1_isjhcax wrote

At what point does Church become a hate cult? Cause this seems close.

2

malpasplace t1_isk9xv9 wrote

I hope that UK voters remember these sort of stances by Labour for the next election, and to hold them to it when they hold power.

2

Murgatroyd314 t1_ismrsaw wrote

If Parliament goes forward with this, there will be opposition, at which point a lot of people will suddenly have an excuse to use the word antidisestablishmentarianism.

2

AutoModerator t1_isgepc2 wrote

Reminder: this subreddit is meant to be a place free of excessive cynicism, negativity and bitterness. Toxic attitudes are not welcome here.

All Negative comments will be removed and will possibly result in a ban.


I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

Benji_Nottm t1_isgf13r wrote

I'm gay and no, this isn't right. This is a delicate situation that could backfire badly. Faiths have to make such decision alone, and not be bullied into anything.

−48

dolphins3 OP t1_isgg92o wrote

The CoE isn't just a faith though, it's a government institution, which gives parliament some avenues to enforce oversight, like this.

And homophobia is objectively bad, just like every other moral failure of organized religion lately.

The historical reality is that throughout history, religions often have needed to be "bullied" into doing the moral and truthful thing.

38

Dwarf-Lord_Pangolin t1_isgxm16 wrote

Oddly enough, as a Christian I'd disagree in this case. The reason being that the CoE doesn't have anything like the separation of church and state you'd find in the United States: some of the bishops in the CoE automatically have a place in the House of Lords merely by virtue of being bishops (these are called Lords Spiritual). They can't have their cake and eat it.

​

Now, if all they wanted to do was articulate a view of human sexuality that holds that the male and female sexes are complementary halves of the divine image that are united in marriage, that's fine -- and if people don't like it, they don't have to join their church. Withholding your church's rites from someone that disagrees with its teachings is indeed distinct from homophobia, which is failing to grant people equal legal rights. (Though as we know, many people have been doing both, sadly). You can't expect people to follow your clubhouse's rules if they aren't members -- but you also can't expect the clubhouse to let you in if you don't want to play by their rules.

​

But here's the problem: they're trying to do that while also being basically an extension of the state -- a state, in this case, which holds a very different view of human sexuality, as does much of the populace. Those clubhouses overlap, quite messily. And, again, we know that a lot of them aren't just holding a different view of sexuality -- at least some are also trying to deny people those legal rights, which they have the political oomph to do thanks to the Lords Spiritual. And in this case, the guy mentioned in the article, Bradshaw, is saying that if this disagreement continues, "disestablishment" may have to result -- in other words, severing the link between the government and the church.

​

Which, as a Christian -- and ironically an Anglican at that -- is honestly what should be done anyway. I agree strongly that faiths should not be bullied into doing anything, but I also strongly think that any time the church tries to coerce instead of persuade, it is doing wrong -- people shouldn't be bullied into doing anything by faiths, either.

38

Extra-Process-9394 t1_isgk1x5 wrote

"I'm gay"

Yeah as a bisexual research scientist I cannot imagine how twisted your brain would have to be to say "it's up to the religion if they want to treat gay people like abominations haha 😊". Bro nah nobody should be home of phobic this take is awful.

17

dolphins3 OP t1_isglp8v wrote

Probably LGBT but raised Christian. I was, which is why I stay curious about Christianity related news, but that upbringing definitely fucks you up.

9

Benji_Nottm t1_isgvq83 wrote

Why? Because I think religion is BS. They can do what the hell they want. I don't have this urge to make everyone think like I do. We can argue how if it is a sin it's no more grave a sin than adultery and churches aren't supposed to be only accepting the perfect, quite the opposite...But a secular society is about leaving each other alone, not forcing everyone and everything to abide by you. The CofE will catch up in time, bullying them into doing so just give powerful ammunition to nutters on the Right.

−7

jod125 t1_ishn712 wrote

>But a secular society is about leaving each other alone

The UK is not a secular society. It is a protestant country, hence 'The Church of England'

7

dd10101010 t1_isgn7da wrote

Why the quotes? They didn't say that

−10

Extra-Process-9394 t1_isgvp0k wrote

Either this is the laziest troll or you just cant read. Please feel free to reread.

3

dd10101010 t1_isgx0fy wrote

"It's up to the religion...."

−6

Extra-Process-9394 t1_isgzzvy wrote

Oh I see, you meant the second quotes. You misunderstood me using humor to point out the absurdity of the point they made. Allow me to clarify: I was using humor to point out the absurdity of the point they made.

6

Unbroken-anchor t1_isj483b wrote

  1. They’re a state institution so they don’t get to decide their own policy.

  2. If you discriminate against people because of how they’re born then, for me at least, you don’t get to operate in the UK. Whinge and cry all you want but I’d close you down and send you back to the Dark ages where you belong.

7

Flullible t1_isj257q wrote

Either you are not gay or you have severe internalized homophobia! Cant believe you are being serious.

−3

Benji_Nottm t1_isju348 wrote

Forcing religions to appeal to me when not one part of me is religious?Thinking it wrong for Government to force religions into doing things?

That's not internalized homophobia that's being normal.

I don't want no one telling me how to live my life or what to believe, so i think it only fair I treat others the same...I don't have an internal need to control or dictate to people. Leave me alone, and I will leave you alone.

3

dolphins3 OP t1_isk2crm wrote

>Forcing religions to appeal to me when not one part of me is religious?Thinking it wrong for Government to force religions into doing things?

I'm not sure how you keep missing this, but the Church of England is not just a religion, it is literally an extension of the government. They automatically get 26 seats in the House of Lords where they vote on legislation. Bishops are approved by a government panel. Parliament already votes on religious matters like approving new editions of the Book of Common Prayer.

2