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Computer_Sci t1_iuovugn wrote

Reply to comment by SafeHayven in Tokyo begins same-sex partnership recognition by AsslessBaboon

I also don't get it. Most of these countries are atheistic. Japan, Korea, Russia, china, but are exceptionally homophobic. Where does the homophobia stem from if not Religion.

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SafeHayven t1_iuoxdtr wrote

-Japan isn’t that homophobic, and most of the anti-gay sentiment was imported from the West and China.

-China is heavily influenced by Confucian philosophy, which is deeply sexist and homophobic.

-Russia is heavily Orthodox Christian, and was also influenced by Marxism and Islam. Hardly atheistic.

-Korea is pretty heavily Christian and Confucian as well.

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godisanelectricolive t1_iup9mvj wrote

Confucianism is not explicitly homophobic. gay or lesbian sex was accepted as long as you also marry the opposite sex and have kids. China was not traditionally homophobic when you look at its history. There were gay emperors like Emperor Ai of Han, Emperor Zhengde of Ming and Emperor Tianqi of Ming. Tianqi had a palace just for male lovers and another for female lovers. There were lots of records of court concubines coupling with each other. Homoerotic art and poetry was pretty common.

Gay sex was only criminalized for the first time in the 18th century due to Western influence, using a translation for the word "sodomy". Homophobic attitudes didn't become widespread until the 20th as China "modernized". It's a similar story as what happened in Japan. Before the Meiji period same-sex activity was pretty commonly accepted. Similar story in Korea, gay sex was never seen as scandalous in the old days.

But same-sex marriage was never proposed back then because back then love marriage was unheard of. People had arranged marriages for practical reasons, to benefit the family and pass on the family name. Things have changed though. Now many marriages between heterosexual couples don't result in children, which was exceedingly rare a hundred years ago.

Even in Muslim or Christian societies a prohibition against gay sex hasn't always been the norm. Some sections of the Bible or the Quran get emphasized at certain periods of history but other times they are just seen as irrelevant.

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SafeHayven t1_iupgdro wrote

This is still a form of homophobia—to be forced into a relationship with someone to whom you’re not attracted just to meet some arbitrary social norm. Love among gay and lesbian people is not primarily about sex, but attachment and mutual understanding. Ancient society tolerating a few very powerful ancient leaders’ practice of “”loving”” concubines (who typically were not there by consent) does not equate to gay acceptance. Not even close.

This is not to mention that the traditional concept of marriage in China (and, to be fair, many other places worldwide) was more like a slave contract than a relationship. As you mentioned, marriages were arranged based on superstition and social position, rather than chosen based on love. And the woman was seen as an object being purchased, a domestic servant / baby incubator sold from one man (her father / family head) to another (her husband).

So yes, I 100% stand by my comments that Confucianism is sexist and homophobic.

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Xylus1985 t1_iur49nh wrote

China is not really homophobic and there are gay and trans celebrities who are celebrated. It’s more that the family value emphasis on you having children because traditionally the family takes care of the elderly.

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kidantrum t1_iuox00g wrote

I personally think, people hate/fear things that are different from the norm or different from what they're used to. If things aren't the way they know them or want them to be, they want to change them or get rid of them. Religion is often just used to justify hate.

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dangit1590 t1_iup0pd5 wrote

Japan is a very unique situation becuase how their government is run. They can have prime ministers up to essentially 5 or 10 plus years as long as they have power.

I think as someone who’s visited Japan. Some Japanese people are fearful but it’s never a hateful fear for the most. I think it stems from the government mostly. Generally I’ve never had a bad experience in Tokyo or even the rural areas when I visited.

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godisanelectricolive t1_iup7xzz wrote

Tradition can play the exact same role in society as religion. As long as people blindly accept tradition without a critical eye, things will not change. Too often old people just think the way things were when they were young is the way it should always be.

Religion is not the root of such ways of thinking, it's a manifestation.

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