White Punks on Transit

Submitted by [deleted] t3_10ys0rd in baltimore

The Banner did an amazing job of channeling The Sun in its feature on how difficult it is to commute by bus in Baltimore. In a town that is 65% Black and whose percentage of Black bus ridership is significantly higher, The Banner story profiles one upper middle class white woman's travails, and interviews two white savior transit bros as experts. https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/community/transportation/baltimore-bus-system-changes-public-transportation-FTGAM5EXRFGOTJMN2SKDUQIA4E/ How difficult can it be to find a Black person who rides the bus by necessity and not by choice to talk to? Or a Black transit advocate?

[title's cultural reference point for the born-yesterdays: https://youtu.be/rs9wuaVV33I ]

0

Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

jojammin t1_j7z9vej wrote

.....what? Do buses work differently depending on the riders melanin? Why are you so angry

51

TheSpektrModule t1_j7zgu6j wrote

Some people want to make everything about race.

21

CaptainObvious110 t1_j8e3z7f wrote

Generally when people say that they are of the race that has traditionally had the upper hand in this country.

1

[deleted] OP t1_j7zeyn8 wrote

Maybe centering white people on an issue that disproportionately affects Black people is ... offensive? There is also a bigger picture issue with horrible bus service. Car ownership helps poor people escape poverty because it allows them to get to better paying jobs https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/04/01/why-the-poor-need-better-access-to-cars/ I'm honestly not sure if we could design a transit system that efficiently takes current riders to their workplaces. Bus transit was horrible under Glendenning, Ehrlich, O'Malley and Hogan. I don't see it changing under Wes Moore, and a lot of transit people focus on expensive rail proposals rather than trying to address the problems in the bus system that the vast majority of transit riders use.

−21

jojammin t1_j7zg39e wrote

>Maybe centering white people on an issue that disproportionately affects Black people is ... offensive?

The Banner can't interview a white person (did it even mention her race?) who had a bad experience on a bus? I don't understand the outrage or how that interview is offensive.

24

bmore t1_j80rx98 wrote

You're complaining about transit people being interviewed on a bus story about making the bus more reliable and your critique is they don't focus on buses and only focus on expensive rail proposals? That doesn't even make sense.

6

[deleted] OP t1_j7zfkgi wrote

And perhaps a solution to this might be to focus on passenger vans rather than large buses to get people to where the jobs are? The current system clearly is failing in its mission.

−26

theyoungbloody t1_j7ze398 wrote

I just read the whole article, unless I missed something, it doesnt mention race or skin color anywhere in that article.

48

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j80afrf wrote

OP, what exactly are you upset about?

Is it the problems with the transit system outlined in the article you shared, or is it the fact that the article used a white person’s interview to publish and tell the story of how the transit system needs help?

If your answer is the latter, I would google the term “divide and conquer,” because that is how a ruling class achieves what is called redirection.

In even more simple terms, who’s your real enemy?

The people collecting taxes from you and putting it in their pocket while the infrastructure decays out of their sight, or is it the white person sat next to you on the bus on their way to work?

And to answer my earlier (rhetorical) question about your skin color, OP… the answer is “why would it matter what color your skin is?”

The article discussed very real problems with the transit system. If you’re unable to process that without posting on Reddit about skin color, you have been divided and conquered.

37

skrewballl t1_j85e83a wrote

noun: strawman

an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

why couldnt you engage with their original question?

this comment im responding to being at the top of this thread really shows the state of this sub!

wild

3

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j85mpft wrote

>easier to defeat than an opponent’s argument

Can you please clarify the OP’s “argument.”

2

skrewballl t1_j85n24m wrote

read: OP's question

2

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j85oon8 wrote

I’m still missing the “argument” here.

Please would you spell it out for me?

1

skrewballl t1_j85wv9p wrote

it was a question, not an argument, and the strawman fallacy still applies.

OP asked "How difficult can it be to find a Black person who rides the bus by necessity and not by choice to talk to? Or a Black transit advocate?"

you answered none of that, and redirected it to

then you suggested that they meant to ask something else: "what are you really upset about?"

then proceeded to answer your own questions instead of theirs: "s it the problems with the transit system outlined in the article you shared, or is it the fact that the article used a white person’s interview to publish and tell the story of how the transit system needs help?
If your answer is the latter, I would google the term “divide and conquer,” because that is how a ruling class achieves what is called redirection."

then you came to a conclusion that was pointed at OP and (insultingly) made a remark about how theyve been discredited: "The article discussed very real problems with the transit system. If you’re unable to process that without posting on Reddit about skin color, you have been divided and conquered."

OP never said that real problems werent talked about in the article, or even even comment all on the quality of the article. They asked about something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, which you chose to ignore.

This is a textbook example of a strawman fallacy and I couldnt spell it out for you more than that.

the point is that you missed the point and everyone patted you no the back while OP got downvoted a ton and kinda made fun of and made to feel bad about asking a legit question.

3

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j86krut wrote

>How difficult can it be to find a Black person who rides the bus by necessity and not by choice to talk to? Or a Black transit advocate?

What exactly is it that upsets you about this article?

Why does the article have to feature “a black person who rides the bus by necessity and not by choice” for you to understand that the issues described in the article regarding the transit system apply to everyone and anyone who uses the transit system?

Look, I understand you are coming from a good place. As a white person, you don’t want black people to get shit on and all that. We all feel that way.

However, this article isn’t it.

If anything this article is bringing real issues to light that affect “black people that have to ride the bus through necessity,” which is good.

The reason why more “black people ride the bus through necessity” than white people is definitely not an article highlighting very real issues bus riders face…

Right?

5

skrewballl t1_j86mnjh wrote

i think the point is that you are just being way too literal about this in a situation where OP was to me kinda leaning more towards the general idea that the banner was taking a page out of the suns book (paper lol) by just not representing the community. and if its obvious enough for someone to think about and question, its worth talking about. instead OP was kind of just battered around about their question mostly without it ever being answered. and that to me is one of the insidious parts of strucural racism. if we all just figure that what the white people are saying is the same as what other races might say because those are the people that the publication is aimed at and its a general issue, then it just makes an echo chamber for one dominant groups perspectives.

sorry for the crummy formatting but i think im finished with this lil spat, nice talkin to ya!

1

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j86pu3z wrote

I hear what you’re saying, and like I told the OP, I believe you’re coming from a good place.

I just feeling like this is overshooting, and continuing to do so will just delegitimize any real issues this city has with poverty.

1

[deleted] OP t1_j80m3lh wrote

I was perfectly fine with the content of the reporting, my issue was with how they presented it. It's a critique of how legacy media (from which the Banner has poached mist of its journalists) covers an issue that disproportionately affect Baltimore's Black community. That's pretty clear from my original post. As I also said below, the fact that almost all local reporters live in the burbs or the White L skews the way they cover Baltimore. They often fall back on reporting from only within their own social bubbles, and coverage of Baltimore suffers as a result. You seem to no problem with local reporters not talking to the Black people for important stories that affect them, as you don't address the issue at all. Maybe you can point to other stories that they've done that cover working class transit commuters who don't have the luxury of a fall back car to drive to work? You know, average people, not the ones the reporters go to happy hours with.

−9

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j80vciz wrote

I can see that you’re upset about this, and I believe you are coming from a good place, seriously.

There are problems with the transit system.

The article discusses these problems.

The article isn’t talking about “white people problems” if the problems they’re talking about “disproportionately affect black people.”

But this article isn’t your issue. Your issue is with the way this media outlet generally caters to a white audience, and this article was used as an example to demonstrate this gripe you have with this particular media outlet.

My advice, take a step back and look at the big picture (I’m not trying to patronize you). Whatever the Baltimore Banner is, their goal isn’t white supremacy. Their goal is to make money.

I mean, in this one article alone there are like 8 commercials. They’re in the money making business.

And… we all just read an article talking about a problem in this city that “disproportionately affects black people.” Good thing.

Maybe Hallie Miller decided that just focusing on the problems with the transit system itself was the way to go rather than publishing an article that paints black people as poor, bus-riding victims without cars?

Maybe her goal was to also point out that white people ride the bus, too. Unity. We’re all in this together. Who knows?

18

[deleted] OP t1_j80z1ot wrote

Fair points, and thanks for the reply. I've already stepped back, mostly letting this play out without response. I rarely post on social media, and I see how I muddied the point I was trying to make by being snarky (and in some ways a bit incoherent.) It is what it is. Cheers.

9

skrewballl t1_j81ww2n wrote

this whole conversation is totally messed up! i think you had a totally valid point from the beginning. divide and conquer stuff is real but you didnt say "these white people have no idea what the real problems are that black people face on busses", you were pointing out SYSTEMIC stuff. I dont think that the banner's goal is white supremacy, but even the most progressive/equity and race conscious media outlet is still operating in a machine that has, since its beginning, been instrumental in engineering public thought. whether with sinister intent or not, its true, and what you are asking about is real shit and the kind of conversations that people love to write off. especially in baltimore! at the end of the day this points to an issue of the majority of a city's population often don't feel seen/acknowledged/represented. you shouldnt be corrected or made to feel wrong about that. especially in baltimore, which i think we can all agree has a declining population and is frantically trying to sell its image to bring in more citizens. it is important to think about why this underrepresentation might be an issue to someone. this question seems to have less to do with bus problems and more about properly representing a citys population in its news coverage.

I notice a lot on reddit that people love to act like that acknowledging, questioning, and dismantling systemic racism through discourse like this is somehow unneccessarily "making it about skin color/race". a lot of shit in this country IS about race, and pretending its not or chastizing others for bringing it up is playing into that system. making you feel silly/weird/awkward about asking a very specific question that they dont feel like is REALLY what you were trying to say sounds like some typical neoliberal "no this is what you meant" bullshit.

i dont know yalls races/whatever, but i sure have some guesses

also im white and live in the white l

skepticism and critique should always be welcomed with open arms! seems like some people around here are fond of doing a little "redirection" themselves. whether conscious or not

im glad you made this post and i encourage you to post more like this! <3

1

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j83tic9 wrote

Edited as I totally misquoted you.

Can you describe the systemic racism you see in this article about the Baltimore transit system?

3

skrewballl t1_j85dk5g wrote

yes, the systemic (structural may be an even better way to say it) racism is in the lack of black voices in the article. simple as

idk why everyone wants to point back to the content of the article, thats not the point. the point OP was trying to start discourse about (imo) was that the article is just kind of disingenuous just by omission of specifically black voices in a city where the majority of riders are black/ non white. especially in a place like baltimore where no matter how much everyone wants to sweep discourse about the way race factors into things right under the rug, it is an integral part of the way everything operates.

this is the usa, it was built by slaves of many (non white) races, and the idea that people are MAKING things about race is ridiculous and ignorant. things are always already about race. and the more people are chastized for talking about it, the more it will be ignored and made to fester into something completely unmanagable. i know they can be uncomfortable conversations for people, but that just means they are REALLY important to talk about. the real divide and conquer and redirection lies in the taboo of talking about stuff like this. if we can agree to have open discourse about it in a calm and considerate manner then it can no longer be used as a tool to divide us!

then we can ALL really feel like were getting great public transportation.

also im still tripping on the fact that OP just made an observation and asked a question and everyone immediately blasted them about why they were asking the wrong question instead of engaging with what they were saying. this is something i feel like i see on reddit pretty often.

2

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j85odov wrote

The OP’s question is what is called a suggestive question.

What was the OP suggesting?

The reason why you cannot you describe the systemic racism you see in this particular article… is because there isn’t any.

And, no. Saying that black people were slaves does not describe systemic racism in this article about the Baltimore transit system.

What is it you are upset about?

1

skrewballl t1_j85vil2 wrote

are you a bot?

people keep answering your questions and then you just tell them that they arent answering your questions?

i answered you, its the lack of black voices in the piece.

better go redress yr straw, its gettin kinda stinky!

2

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j86lqro wrote

Right, but the question is why does the article have to feature a bus rider with black skin for you to not be offended?

1

skrewballl t1_j86ywl2 wrote

well to me the question is why does someone have to be called "offended" just because they want to talk about something or point something important out?

who ever said they were offended?

2

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j88l1m1 wrote

You stated that you are upset because the article doesn’t feature any black people.

You claim you want to have a conversation about systemic racism.

These are two very different things.

The fact that a media outlet published an article about issues with the transit system without publishing any interviews with black people is not racism. It is also not systemic racism.

The article is about how shitty the transit system is.

Again, the article is about how shitty the bus system is.

It’s not an article exploring how poverty and systemic racism plague this city, etc. etc.

You have become a white person who is now dictating the skin color of people local media outlets are allowed to interview.

This ^ is racism. This is dictatorship. Google “Hitler.”

Take a step back.

If the crappy transit system disproportionately affects black people, isn’t it a good thing the news article published a piece on it?

Racism is a real issue. When everything is “racist,” no one is gonna care anymore.

Answer the question. Edit: please

1

skrewballl t1_j89lhdd wrote

i already answered all yr questions

ill be sure to check with you and make sure its okay next time i attempt to have a conversation about racism

good day

2

skrewballl t1_j85dpn0 wrote

aaaaaaaaaaand now poor OP even deleted their account! damn yall! lol

1

becauseineedone3 t1_j8054ei wrote

Sounds like you have a lot of thoughts on the issue. Maybe write a piece for The Banner and interview the people you choose because that is how journalists work.

15

FriedScrapple t1_j7zn99p wrote

It’s definitely a weakness in the Banner. The tendency of the white-middle aged reporters who mostly live in north Baltimore to interview their friends and do stories about what their friends think is interesting. That’s even their pitch, we do stories about YOU! Tell US what to write about! So you get stories about people who raise chickens, or found a weird coffin in a park, or went camping and a pony at Assateague got into the beer. They’re writing for the audience that will pay for a subscription. And eat at Atlas. And click on whatever that Men’s Rights ad is about.

8

[deleted] OP t1_j7zotgs wrote

Exactly. When their editor did her AMA on this sub, I specifically asked her about getting away from the focus on white people problems and talking to residents in neighborhoods outside of the burbs/White L where all of their reporters live. They've been better than The Sun, but there is still a ton of need for improvement.

9

TheKingOfSiam t1_j80nvjj wrote

Way to make white folks feel 'other' and not allowed to live and have experiences in Baltimore.

The transit problem is the transit problem, regardless of the race of the person explaining their (not uncommon) experience.

3

Scrilla_Gorilla_ t1_j80yxdo wrote

As a fellow white man I have to ask, do you regularly feel discriminated against? You're allowed to come to the city, take my word for it. Everyone is always real nice to me, though I like to think that's based on my personality.

6

TheKingOfSiam t1_j81ibbs wrote

Nothing like since good old fashioned prejudice.

Married in the city. Kids born in the city. Lived there for 20 years. I'm good with the city. Wouldn't be in this sub if I didn't like it.

2

CaptainObvious110 t1_j8e3qxy wrote

Thank you. Those are people that have been prioritized for many decades and it's time to level the playing field and stop playing those stupid games

Who uses the service the most and what needs to be done to improve it? Then actually fix the issues. When you do that EVERYONE benefits.

  1. Black people feel as though their voices are being heard and acted on. Which in turn helps to alleviate a whole of apathy.

  2. Actually acting on those concerns ultimately benefits everyone that uses public transportation regardless of race. This in turn helps more people to use the service which gets more people off the road and makes it so that whoever still needs to drive has a better experience getting where they need to go.

1

z3mcs t1_j7ztrmy wrote

> It’s definitely a weakness in the Banner.

And a weakness in this sub too. And like, American life in general, lol. Black folk will scream something from the rooftops but so often nobody really takes heed until some white person echoes the same thing. (this is also the case with Men saying things Women have said in meetings in corporate settings)

9

FriedScrapple t1_j7zvxqa wrote

Now the governor, speaker of the house, mayor of Baltimore, attorney general, states attorney, chief of police are all black, so, maybe that will change. Black women are the biggest voting bloc in the city, so locally they have a lot of power. But for stuff like bus lines you need the Governor on board.

4

CaptainObvious110 t1_j8e31ji wrote

Exactly. A black person complaining about something should be taken just as serious as something said why someone who is white.

When I ride the bus it's always mostly black and Hispanic people on there. Rarely are their white people on there.

So even if it's unintentional it's still perpetuating the idea that white people are still superior and that it's to the point where it's considered normal by most people only goes to show how deeply entrenched that idea still is no matter how subtle it may be or how good intentioned people may be.

1

YorickTheCat t1_j7z7s28 wrote

How do you know she is white? Did I miss something? I think middle class can be inferred based on job description. I'm assuming (maybe incorrectly) that this is one of the people that they asked to send in tips as part of the Better Baltimore series; follow up maybe?

7

megalomike t1_j7zf4no wrote

she's white. there was a picture of her in the story earlier. its been updated. or you can google her. i do not think her transit complaints carry less weight because she's white, i certainly hope mine don't because i'm white, but the basic point - ridership is probably close to 90% black stands. if you hopped on any bus or train to ask someone's thoughts and came away with only the perspective of a white millenial with a graduate level education you fucked up somehow.

21

YorickTheCat t1_j7zgcka wrote

Ah, the only pic I see is of people boarding a bus. I read the article and thought "relatable". What color her skin might be didn't really cross my mind because this is an every person who has to ride the bus story (or chooses to as many advocate for in lieu of cars). Google stalking her didn't cross my mind. Edit: because my grammar sucks sometimes.

8

addctd2badideas t1_j80hsm4 wrote

While it's not debatable that poor bus service will affect Black folk more than White, the Banner's readership is predominantly White so if they're trying to make an argument and all previous arguments that have focused on the plight of Black folk don't get traction, then you sometimes have to meet your audience where they are instead of the other way around. Given our tribal instincts as humans and the way our social structures have been so segregated, it does stand to reason that a piece would focus on someone that can explain why an issue is important in a way readers will relate.

5

skrewballl t1_j85ehlj wrote

you rock for engaging what OP was actually asking about!

1

bmore t1_j80v49u wrote

It is kinda crazy the reporter couldn't find the same story from a Black woman given they're the vast majority of ridership and definitely have the same or worse story to tell.

5

PigtownFoo t1_j80aud6 wrote

I don’t disagree with you. I imagine most public transit users are black, and it would make sense for their voices to be reflected.

But I will also say that oftentimes, people of color and immigrants, are a bit more hesitant to speak with reporters.

4

z3mcs t1_j80e85v wrote

> But I will also say that oftentimes, people of color and immigrants, are a bit more hesitant to speak reporters.

LOL, what? I mean I understand what you're saying generally but having watched the news on tv almost religiously around here for years and years there is NO shortage of black folk willing to talk about something lol. With fervor.

4

PigtownFoo t1_j80fjjx wrote

LOL! Glad I gave you a laugh today. I have a media background. Just going off of years of experience and observation.

Never said that black and Immigrant people would not ever speak to a reporter, but there is a lot more hesitance to do so compared with whites. Similar to the hesitance to speak with police.

Is this such a far-fetched concept?

2

z3mcs t1_j80jhp9 wrote

>Is this such a far-fetched concept?

Nah:

>I mean I understand what you're saying generally

2

Notpoligenova t1_j82oh5v wrote

It’s happened: the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen.

4

skrewballl t1_j85xxyh wrote

the name of this thread should be changed to whites drunk on cope lol

2

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j7zavyv wrote

Hey OP, what color is your skin?

−1

chili-pee t1_j82rc3g wrote

OP is not saying that only certain race can have an opinion on the matter. They're merely pointing out the fact that if you want to inform the public of any given issue, its best practice to interview people it affects the most; to be more accurately representative. If it was about how the lack of access to abortions affects women and i interviewed a conservative white woman, you would probably reconsider your reaction.

4

Nelson_Gremdella t1_j83uwkn wrote

>if you want to inform the public of any given issue, it’s best practice to interview people it affects the most

Given issue: Baltimore busses suck

People it affects most: People who ride the bus

What color is your skin?

1

MeanMrBiter t1_j800ggl wrote

Baltimore Banner showing it’s ass again

−6