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PunctiliousCasuist t1_iubnzu6 wrote

Reply to comment by papajim22 in Patagonia Opens Largest Store in Fells Point by sellwinerugs

If you don’t mind my asking what’s the bad rep about? I’ve only ever heard good things about them tbh, unless the criticism is as broad as “they’re an international company that makes stuff and owning stuff is bad.”

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A_Damn_Millenial t1_iubtq9d wrote

Corporations will not save the planet. There are no good billionaires.

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why_grapefruit_why t1_iubw3oa wrote

But dude the Patagonia guy is literally the best of the billionaires. Like if they all did what he did then maybe we’ll survive the apocalypse

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A_Damn_Millenial t1_iuc0kno wrote

>if they all did what he did then maybe we’ll survive the apocalypse

I hate to break it to you, even the good billionaires and their corporations won’t save us. They wouldn’t be billionaires if they were truly so selfless. All Chouinard did was find a way to avoid paying his fair share of taxes while getting a buttload of good press.

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theghostofm t1_iud1ph1 wrote

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, and neither does Yvon Chouinard, the founder of Patagonia: He, last month, literally gave the company away saying “earth is our only shareholder now,” and believes “every billionaire is a policy failure.” (Link)

He and the company have a long history of this.

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todareistobmore t1_iudk62z wrote

> He [...] believes “every billionaire is a policy failure.”

In context, this is an excuse. He gave the money away to a nonprofit his family controls to dodge estate taxes. On its own I don't think it's more than normal superrich tax avoision, but it's one of the policy failures the saying is usually meant to include.

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A_Damn_Millenial t1_iudcokt wrote

You’ve swallowed the bullshit PR story, full bait and hook. This move saved him over a billion dollars in gift taxes if he were to transfer the company to his family traditionally. This was a genius way to ensure his family maintains control over the company and can discretely wield immense political power for generations to come.

The article doesn’t tell you that he gave 98% of the company away to a new 501(c)(4) called The Holdfast Collective and 2% (with the voting shares) to another new organization called The Patagonia Purpose Trust. He and his family own the later, meaning they still control Patagonia.

But why would he do that? Well, it’s the way you reduce a 1.2 Billion tax bill down to 17 Million, can still control the board of the company, and then use Patagonia profits to fund a 501(c)(4).

501(c)(4)s are not your typical charity - they’re allowed to donate to politicians, PACS, and even directly campaign. He effectively turned Patagonia profits into a new lobbying side hustle with zero transparency, and one can assume that he and his family will run it. No income tax, capital gains tax, or gift tax. (One has to make this assumption as there’s currently ZERO transparency about The Holdfast Collective.)

There are no good billionaires. Chouinard and his family are obviously not the worst - but they’re not going to save us. I’d still recommend their products, if you can afford them, but please understand that the media has been fleeced by Patagonia’s great PR, generally excellent environmental practices, and the everlasting hope that there’s actually some decent rich people out there.

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Ill-Consideration974 t1_iudf3pm wrote

So you think the only good people out there are middle class, poor or other non rich classes? Or are humans just inherently terrible?

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A_Damn_Millenial t1_iudi8dw wrote

There are good rich people. However, the level of wealth billionaires have amassed is disgusting and disgraceful. No individual should control that much wealth, and I’m unaware of a billionaire who hasn’t caved to the pressures to hoard.

Billionaires should pay significantly more taxes than they currently do, and I’m fucking tired of the incredible power they wield over our elected officials and outrageous tax loopholes they continuously exploit. They’ve earned their fortunes on by often standing on the shoulders or necks of society - they owe the country and society that allowed this kind of unbridled capitalism to exist more than 1.4% of the taxes they should have paid.

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philaiv t1_iudi68v wrote

No one gives away a billion dollar company to save a few hundred million on taxes. That just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

It's always people who don't understand how taxes work that love to spread false information about taxes.

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todareistobmore t1_iudpor7 wrote

> No one gives away a billion dollar company to save a few hundred million on taxes. That just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

He's 83. It's estate management (which is also why it's an exemption rather than a deduction).

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A_Damn_Millenial t1_iudiply wrote

You’re right. He and his family control the organizations he “gave it away” to.

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philaiv t1_iudkr16 wrote

My point was that you don't understand tax law. 501c4s are NOT tax deductible.

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A_Damn_Millenial t1_iudqf0v wrote

Also correct. Didn’t I say they paid 17 million in taxes? 17 million is only 1.41% of the 1.2 billion that should’ve been paid when transferring a company to family. Why is that so hard to understand?

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PutVegetable8415 t1_iuimgtv wrote

Many corporations will do significantly more to save the planet than whiny redditors.

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papajim22 t1_iucynjw wrote

More so the target demographic that wears Patagonia (e.g. the stereotypical Silicon Valley tech bro vest), and how expensive their stuff can be. Setting up shop in ritzy Harbor East doesn’t help with that.

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