I just finished Turtles All the Way Down

Submitted by VibraphoneChick t3_z4wcc9 in books

I feel like a bad friend. I have this person I have known all my life, related by blood. They struggle from a lot of mental health problems (OCD included)stemming from a traumatic childhood, so we moved away together. It's been so hard living together. I try to be patient but it's exhausting to constantly be the pillar, and made worse by the fact that my friend just doesn't see it. Doesn't understand how much work I have to put in. Doesn't see how lopsided the relationship is.

The Daisy scene gutted me. Because, yes, Aza is selfish. She doesn't know shit about her best friend. And yes, Aza is sick. And it isn't her fault. And she is trapped in hell. And she doesn't want to be that way. But those two truths don't cancel each other out.

Daisy didn't handle hersef in the most mature way, surprise surprise she is a child, but her point still stands. She is a best friend, but she doesn't really have a best friend.

I don't know. Do people hate daisy? Should I hate daisy? The book is excellent but it really stirred up some feelings in me

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Welfycat t1_ixtk5rz wrote

I think the bitchy part was her making it public in her fanfic. If I found that a friend had done that to me it would have absolutely killed me and I never would have spoken with them again.

I think neither of them were really fulfilling a good friendship until the end of the book where they were both trying to make things work. Aza needed professional help. People can be friends (or even family), but they can’t replace what professional health can do and it’s not fair to make them try.

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Standard-Counter-422 t1_ixuhgmn wrote

I found that last part to be a super mature take for a couple of teens! Aza tries to help Daisy understand, but she doesn't expect Daisy to fix her, she has professional help for that.

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r--evolve t1_ixtsoc0 wrote

I agree that Daisy didn't handle things well. She had every right to an outlet for her frustrations with Aza but not in a public forum where Aza might have been recognized by people they both knew, since the fanfic was popular.

I don't hate Daisy, especially since she was still mostly present and supportive of Aza throughout, with the daily ins-and-outs of OCD.

I don't hate Aza either though. In my own life, I am the Problem Friend with mental illness. No matter how difficult it is to love someone with mental illness, it's probably more difficult to be the one with the mental illness. Speaking from my own experience, people with mental illness know they might make life hard for other people and they feel extreme shame about it, even if they don't (or can't) show it or make attempts to fix it. But still, the loved ones have every right to feel exhausted.

Knowing the author's background (he has OCD) and themes of his previous books (i.e. "Everyone is complicated"), I think we're meant to feel complicated about both characters, just like they feel complicated about each other.

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Standard-Counter-422 t1_ixuh7x9 wrote

My biggest takeaway from the book was that it's hard to live with mental illness, but it's also hard to live with loved ones who struggle with mental illness. There are many difficulties in this world and it's not helpful to compare them. Each one is valid, and all we can do is try our best to lessen the burden on ourselves and others.

My second biggest takeaway was that a sick life is still a life worth living, and comes with relationships worth having. OCD was a strain on Aza and Daisy, but they still got so much out of the relationship. When you're struggling with mental health, that fact isn't self-evident, so I found it to be a pretty powerful realization for me.

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BadwolfAtHogwarts t1_ixuo5l4 wrote

I don’t think you should hate either character, but rather seem them as both complex human beings who have flaws and have made mistakes even within their complex circumstances. Both have feelings that are valid, and you’re right, they don’t cancel each other out. Support systems for both of them would likely be able to help them function better as friends. I love how this book gives insight into mental health issues and how all consuming it can feel to a person experiencing it, so well as how alienating it can be for the people around them.

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