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slimsag t1_je8qb0r wrote

Reply to comment by mindvape in ELI5 Why are pickles not just called pickled cucumbers? by Shabless

it is correct to say sauerkraut is both fermented AND pickled

'pickled' just means preserving something in a brine. This can be done through an acid brine like vinegar and heat treatment.. or through lacto-fermentation (a salt brine which helps a particular type of bacteria, which produces acid, grow.)

Even in just the context of cucumber pickles at your grocery store, you can often find both types and not even know it.

Cheaper brands on the shelves like Vlasic will be heat-pasteurized in a vinegar brine, normally not refrigerated as there's no live bacteria producing gasses so the jars won't explode.

While other brands like Claussen, Mt Olive, etc. will be in the fridge section because they were lacto-fermented and need to stay cool to slow the bacteria to keep them fresh longer (and avoid unwanted pressure buildup in the jar.)

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Zumazumarum t1_je8tklp wrote

I disagree to this, could you provide a source? My definition of pickle is to prevent any fermentation and bacteria development, while fermenting is to preserve food with a specific type of bacteria/yeast.

Edit: their are many types of salt brine fermentations, like soy sauce, but wouldn't call that pickled either.

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slimsag t1_jean6z0 wrote

> Pickling is the process of preserving or extending the shelf life of food by either anaerobic fermentation in brine or immersion in vinegar.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickling

> their are many types of salt brine fermentations, like soy sauce, but wouldn't call that pickled either.

Soy sauce is indeed a fermented salt brine. But what food is it preserving? None, just the liquid itself. So it's not pickled, it's just fermented.

But if you use soy sauce to ferment and preserve say vegetables, then those vegetables are said to be /pickled/. There's even a word for it (Shoyuzuke)

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Zumazumarum t1_jeayicy wrote

Yeah, I read the wiki, but I still disagree to it. Looking up pickle on Oxford dictionary, merriam-webster, Cambridge or dictionary.com they all say its a vinegar or brine preservation. None of them mention fermentation. I don't know why Wikipedia has decided to bundle the two things together, there's no source to it.

F.ex. Sauerkraut is a salt fermentation, but not with a brine. Yet, Wikipedia says its still a pickled food in contrary to the dictionaries definitions.

In my culture, we have a clear separation between the two ways of preserving food. So I'm just surprised ppl here bundle them into the same thing.

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slimsag t1_jeb7o12 wrote

> Sauerkraut is a salt fermentation, but not with a brine

Sauerkraut is made with the immense amount of water that is in cabbage, and salt, i.e. a brine. Brine is just salty water. When you add salt to cabbage as you do when making Sauerkraut, you literally end up with brine and cabbage. Sauerkraut is pickled food because it is a food preserved in a brine, in this case through fermentation.

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Zumazumarum t1_jebd4ov wrote

Dude, I know what brine is. You're being perfidious. Making vegetables shed water is not adding brine or using brine. It's just a salt fermentation. Look at any pickle jar and the liquid to vegetable ratio isn't anything like sauerkraut. You're really stretching the argument beyond the dictionary definition.

Let's just leave it here. Agree to disagree.

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slimsag t1_jec0jch wrote

not sure why you're getting mad at me, I just share facts about fermentation and pickling vegetables with you from Wikipedia and other reliable sources, because I like pickling & fermentation and enjoy sharing cool knowledge.

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